And what happens when the subs run out of torpedoes?
How do they keep the whole thing secret, what with satelite and air surveillance? How many tens of thousands of fishing boats does China have? How many soldiers can fit on a fishing boat? How many tanks? How How do they feed the soldiers as they are crossing the Pacific? How do they refuel the fishing boats? How do they defend against air attack? Against attack helicopters? A coast guard patrol boat with a .50 caliber deck gun can sink dozens of unarmed small boats in a few minutes. How do they resupply the 10% of the force that manages to make landing? How do the scattered units defend themselves against counterattack? In the modern era, how manyamphibious assualts that were not carried out by US or British troops were successful?
Keep in mind, in a long sustained war, US & China are going to be hard to beat because of the sheer amount of manufacturing capabilities both can utilize. Even taking out nukes/bio/chem warfare out of it, China & the US could produce more weapons & ammo faster than any any of the other countries combined. Remember during WW2 many factories stopped making or reduced the number of their regular products made in their factories so they could concentrate on the war effort. It would be hard to say who would win any particular battle, too many factors to consider, but over the long haul? The two big manufacturing countries with the civilians to run the factories while the soldiers are fighting are going to win. Just MHO.
Well, then the Air National Guard starts bombing the heck of the transports.
Seriously, neither China or Russia have anywhere near enough ships to begin thinking about invading the US - heck, China would have a devil of a time landing an invasion fleet on Taiwan, and that is only about a 100 miles away.
Any attempt to uss mass merchant ships would be a massive turkey shoot for the US. Assuming the Chinese can pack a 1000 men onto each merchant ship, and want to deliver an invasion force of say, 10 million, they would need 10,000 ships - which they don’t have, and wouldn’t be able to build, not with US carrier forces bombing their shipyards. And even without the bombing And even if they had 10,000 ships, they would not be able to protect them - the People’s Army’s Navy might last a day or two against the US Pacific fleet, so these 10,000 ships would have to fight their way across the Pacific - as I said, turkey shoot.
The best option for the US and UK in this case would be to contain the Russian’s and Chinese by using our superior power project abilites, to their home lands, while fighting Iran & Syria from our convient positions in Iraq, and letting the S. Koreans and Japanese deal with the North Koreas, maybe adding support there if the Chinese directly aid the N. Koreans.
Of course, Russia & China are just two freaking big and populous to invade conventionally; since nukes are out of the question, we will have to either resort to good old fashion firebombing, ala Dresen, of their major cities once their air defense are eroded, or boost the space program, and begin working on diverting a couple Tunguska size rocks onto their populated areas.
And finally, a GDP comparison (as GDP has been a pretty good predictor of real wars between major powers in the last century) From the CIA World Factbook:
- US - $10.9 trillion
- UK - $1.67 trillion
- S. Korea (since the scenerio presumes they are being invaded) - $857 billion
- Taiwan $528 billion
- Ukraine $260 billion
Total - $14.215 trillon, or just $12.57 trillion for the US & UK.
- China - $6.49 trillion
- Russia - $1.28 trillion
- Iran - $478 billion
- Syria - $58 billion
- N. Korea $29.6 billion.
Total - $8.33 trillion.
I don’t remember the exact numbers from the end of Black Hawk Down, but we lost 19 soldiers to 1000 Somaili’s dead. That was 50 - 1 kill ratio - I think the ratio was about the same in Viet Nam (I’m sorry if I’m way off - the numbers I saw included War Dead to 59000 American Soldiers.)
American Soldiers dug in - I’d expect the ratio to be a lot higher. The Chinese would have to train those men - not just give them guns. We’d probably start freaking out fast if they did start training 200 Million soldiers.
But then you’d have to take into consideration the American’s aged 17-35 who wouldn’t defend their country because they disagree with the current administration, think the Iraq war was wrong, etc. That would definitely help the invading country.
:rolleyes:
Because the situations are so analogous. Let’s see…one scenario has a country actually starting an invasion of the US. The other had the US invading a country that wasn’t a threat to us at all, much less considering an actual invasion.
Don’t be a fool. You know what I was saying, but just needed to hop on your high horse and take a swipe at the administration. Save your rolling eyes and venom for somewhere else. I only mentioned the Iraq war as a sample of disagreements with the US Gov.
Listen to NPR sometime, there is a large segment that goes beyond the Iraq war with their contempt for the US living in the US. Would this go away if we were invaded, or could the Chinese use this to their advantage - argue that but enough with the “we invaded Iraq so” blah blah blah
As opposed to you, who never considered hopping on his high horse to take a swipe at people who disagreed with the Iraq war, right? :rolleyes:
As far as the issue of Russia China and Iran not having an ability to get onto US land - that’s not really true. They could paint their tanks white and secretly drive hundreds of thousands of them over the north pole (some boat assistance may be needed) and into Canada and Alaska. And once they are there nothing will stop them as it’ll be a sort of a zerg rush considering how many cheap easy to make tanks and how many expandable tank crews Reussia and China could come up with.
Well, in that case, we’d build some photon cannons up on the tundra, which should hold off the rush until the templars arrive, right?
The Protoss fight on the side of the Chinese man, suits their ideology better. You are better off with tesla coils i would think.
Touchy! Sorry Kid - Iraq war is an awful thing - we invaded, they were not a threat, everything would be super if we didn’t invade with our Imperialist intentions, and all that wash. I understand now that anything mentioned about it without the proper disclaimer is a swipe, and all my other points will be ignored until I come to understand the error of my ways.
And do the Chinese actually have tens of thousands of battle-ready ships?
I always thought of the US as the Terran, the Europeans as the Protoss, and China as the Zerg, actually.
The terran, good all around, balanced
The protoss, excellent individually but very structured, can’t rely on numbers
The zerg, best on offense, rely on numbers
It’s a ridiculous claim that Americans would disagree with any administration for defending the USA from invasion.
In other words, you’re just taking a cheap swipe at those who disagree with the invasion of Iraq.
Excuse me? Kid? You’d do well to turn down the condescension, pal.
I’m sorry, but stop me if I’m wrong - your point was that because people opposed the invasion of Iraq, these same people wouldn’t help defend the country against an actual invasion because they hate America, correct?
That’s not a valid point. It’s an utterly retarded point of view with little to no factual backing, and is little more than a pathetic swipe at people who you disagree with.
Hmmm… you called Shivarox kid - what - it’s condescension when I use the term - you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?
I’m stopping you because you are wrong. I never said anyone “hated” America - of course it’s a “retarded” point - you made it up. It’s patently obvious you are trying to turn this into something it’s not. That’s too bad.
Where are the tanks going to get fuel? Where are the crew going to get food? How will they resupply with ammo? Have you ever driven the Alaska Highway? Do you have the impression that tanks are low-maintence all-terrain vehicles? Do you think tanks can just drive over trees, rocks, streams, muskeg, swamp, permafrost, rivers, and mountains? Have you ever tried to drive any vehicle of any design…let alone a tank…through unimproved wilderness?
Even if tanks could just drive through the wilderness without fuel resupply, how would a wave of tanks survive being pounded from the air by US and Canadian air forces?
People have this idea that tanks are these indestructable behemoths that can just roll over everything and crush everything and kill everything. Not so. They are fragile, break down all the time, require truly hideous tonnages of fuel, and can be killed quite easily if they find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time, or when they don’t have support.
Yeah, OUR tanks could charge through the deserts of Iraq and crush everything in their path…because our tanks were followed by trucks filled with fuel and ammunition, our troops had detailed surveillance and communication, our air force kept enemy planes from even getting off the ground, and the enemy soldiers were demoralized and fixed into defensive positions with almost no communication from their commanders.
Obsolete Chinese and Russian tanks charging over the border unsupported would be committing suicide, even if the US shared a land border with them.
Indeed, I did. Responding entirely to the tone of Shivarox’s post, I responded in kind. You, on the other hand, started the venom in this entire exchange by implying that people opposed to the war in Iraq hated the US and wouldn’t defend it.
Really? So you didn’t tell me to:
Of course, now I fully expect you to try and weasel out of this by nitpicking that there’s a difference between contempt and hatred.
Seems pretty clear that you’re trying to smear those opposed to the Iraq War by implying that they hold the United States in contempt and wouldn’t lift a finger to defend it from an invading country.
I am painfully aware of all the issues cheap old tanks have. But Russia and China have enough resources to supply them well into Canada and Alaska (using trucks that’ll also be painted white). As far as the US air superiority - irrelevant. They are painted white remeber? And what color is snow? The whole thing is gonna be secret and stealthy and it’ll work mostly because the US isn’t expecting anything from up north and is not prepared for it. If the huge armada does get spotted before getting off the ice they are doomed, but if they do make it to land the US is done.