The US Christian Military?

Great Debates
21

I just got out of the Army. In fact, I was stationed at Ft. Riley as recently as January 2005 and there was definitely some Christian bias.

For one thing, there were very few religious options available for non-Christians. The only services in the post chapel were Christian and all the chaplains I’ve seen (except for one*) were some denomination of Christianity. I saw local (civilian) Wiccan and Jewish services advertised on a billboard one time in basic training, but that was the only time I ever saw any non-Christian religions even acknowledged. Come to think of it, the only people I ever met who weren’t either Christians or atheists were in basic training. Maybe the Army weeds them out, I don’t know. The only other one I heard of was SGT Akbar who threw that grenade into his CO’s tent in 2003.

*In Iraq once, all the way across a big DFAC, I regognized a Jewish chaplain by his yarmulke and the star of David on his chest.

It seems prayers were almost always held before or after every formation, ceremony --even the races I ran in Iraq were preceded by prayers. I, an atheist, usually just took my hat off and stared blankly into space. I don’t want to disrespect everybody but I don’t want to play along either. All that God-thanking gets pretty irritating after awhile.

In conversation I didn’t lie to anybody, but usually I tried to steer clear of the topic of religion altogether. With the guys I worked with everyday it wasn’t such a big deal to be an atheist. But with senior NCOs and officers, I could see it becoming a problem; that’s why I tried not to let the subject come up, or say something vague if it did. In the Army, unlike the real world, your bosses don’t just tell you how to do your job – they’re pretty much the boss of your whole life.

Most soldiers I knew kept their religious views private. It seemed to me (looking from the outside) like usually there was a small bible-studying first-name-basis-with-chaplain hardcore Christian clique. Then there were the fair weather Christians (the majority) who rotated in and out of this clique in various intervals.

In my experience though, everyone was professional and didn’t let their religious views cloud their judgment at work. It was more of a bias than discrimination. The rules are pretty clear, so that keeps open discrimination to a minimum. It was just the annoying amount of prayers and a seemingly-institutional perception that rocking the boat is a bad thing, regardless of the rules. I can definitely see those ingredients cooking up a situation like the guy in the OP.

As to the questions in the OP, I don’t know if things have changed or if it has always been this way. That’s just my experience.

22

I tried various terms I remember- evangelical, military, etc. (Christian of course brings up Christian Dior and various models). Unfortunately nada.

I remember that Zac Efron was on the cover if that helps. :smiley:

Speaking of rabbis in Iraq, I wonder if it’s ever requested they not wear a yarmulke, or for that matter if there are orthodox Jews in the military (and I’m assuming there would be) if they have extra considerations and training that’s required for participation in a Muslim country. It would seem to me at least that someone who is visibly/obviously Jewish would be in greater danger to snipers and civilians and the like.

23

That early in one’s military career, one typically said nothing in response. At the reception station and during basic training, one typically strove to NOT attract attention from the sergeants. If one did attract their attention, one stoically and expressionlessly endured the shouting and did whatever penalty (e.g. push-ups) he laid upon you. Debating/arguing with the sergeants had no possible happy ending.

24

But wouldn’t it afford you the opportunity to consult with the Chaplain, to obtain his advice, counsel, and assistance?

25

I was U.S.A.F. from 1976 to 1980. During boot, those who declined to go to church on Sunday were assigned demeaning cleanup jobs, like cigarette butt patrol and toilet cleaning. Complaining to the Chaplain would have been a bad idea, because it was his goal to get 100% participation from every unit-awards were given to barracks leaders if this was accomplished.

26

It was the same in the Navy. You had a choice of going to services on sunday or doing shit work at the barracks. Complaining to the chaplain would not have gotten anybody anywhere. All they did was try to talk you into going to services. One of them told a guy in my company to stop whining – that he was lucky because in the old days they would have kicked his ass. Our Company Commander called the guys who didn’t go to chapel “heathens,” and dared anybody to sue him. We also had mandatory prayers every night before lights out.

Things lightened up after Basic, but it was all Jesus all the time during Boot Camp. It might have been technically possible to sue, but they went out of their way to preemptively mock the idea. Our CC said, “We’ve had smart guys try that bullshit before. go ahead and try it.” It might have been bravado, but when you’re a boot you don’t dare rock any boats.

27

And now we have brave guys like Mikey Weinstein who are taking up his dare. Shodan was questioning his motives, but I’ve heard Mikey talk several times and he’s obviously a sincere, respectful person who expects the same from our military.

28

Same in Army boot camp. Go to services or do the shittiest details they could devise, and endure a lot of verbal abuse into the bargain.

29

That’s par for the course for most believers I know. Twist the words till they justify your actions in your own mind. Whatever let’s you sleep at night I always say.

30

I did not attend church services when in boot camp (Dec '83). I was assigned barracks cleanup. Seemed like no biggy to me. Just redusting the same windowsill you dusted just 5 minutes before, or stripping and waxing the deck, etc. We were not harassed about our choices.

I think it all depends on the personality types of the NCO’s involved.

31

So whatever came of that? I seem to dimly recall something in the papers about it.

32

Who? Me? I’m a life long atheist but at least when I criticize religion, I don’t do so ignorantly. At night, I sleep the sleep of the just. Thanks for the concern.

33

We don’t sleep all that well, frankly. We worry a lot.

34

As a non-believer, I must say the fact that we committed what is close to genocide on tribes in the way just about the time the Ten Commandments were handed down makes a religious justification of pacifism a bit iffy.

35

No criticism of you, just criticism of people who justify their actions to themselves in the way you pointed out.
They know the gist of the message is “Thou shall not kill” but find a loophole and convince themselves it’s “Thou shall not murder” and then further convince themselves “war is killing, but it’s not murder, so it’s okay.”

36

Sadly, no. There is nearly universal consensus amongst scholars (near enough to a miracle in itself, given the extremity of contention in the field of Biblical scholarship…) that the text clearly expresses a condemnation of murder, which may as well be defined as unsanctioned killing. The Israelites were frequently instructed by Jehovah to commit wholesale slaughter, for instance, the Midianites…

  • Wikepedia
37

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

Voltaire
Of course, Volty was French, so I’m sure that makes him wrong to some.

38

God, what a character! Was he a kidder, or what??!

39

Hey, don’t knock the people who invented oral sex!

40

Andrew Sullivan (self-declared Christian) has been tracking this trend in the military for some time now. Here are some cites:
Evangelizing / CO behavior / video outreach / VA Hospital / Attitudes toward athiests / Suicide / Pat Tillman / Gays

Money quote: