# The US is stingy? WTF??? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 28, 2004, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922 "2004-12-28T13:36:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/101 "2004-12-29T16:00:17Z")
Please note my post above. The Internet billionaires will be donating money as well. This is significant, since the economic clout of some corporations is larger than that of some countries. [Look here.](http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/205668_epidemic29.html) > [@](#): > > “The scale of this event is going to place tremendous demands on the health care systems” in Asia, said Harriet Stanley, who works for Seattle-based PATH, the Program for Appropriate Technology in Health. > > The non-profit organization has received money from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to operate several major public-health improvement projects worldwide, including in some of the regions hit by the tsunami. I read this morning that the Salvation Army is moving aid to the region and is aggressively raising money to help. Lots of American dollars will be going to the region. Does it really matter whether they’re public or private dollars? ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/102 "2004-12-29T16:07:19Z")
I don’t know if this will help but… Here in Britain (and in europe) there are PLENTY of people who actively despise the current US Govt (I’m not one of 'em), and I have yet to hear anyone describe the USA’s contribution as “stingy”, and there are a lot of people who woulld take any opportunity to have a go at the US. We have started a massive aid operation (some of the countries affected are commonweath countries - and the UK’s main charities (OXFAM, Save the Children etc) are in all the others). However if you looked at the amount of money spent so far - it’s not that much, as we simply can’t get half the stuff we want to where it’s needed. The real money will need to be spent once the disaster relief is over, on reconstruction etc. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/103 "2004-12-29T16:18:47Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > No, it wasn’t. I was responding to the subject of the thread in general, to wit, what and how much the U.S. should contribute, and the world’s reaction to the same. I notice that you completely ignored the part of my post where I demonstrate that you’re a hypocrite, why is that I wonder? I ignored that part of your post because it was a stupid and flawed comparison. Let’s compare: Egeland - made no reference to the United States, the comment did not come in reference to any specific United States contribution, and did not come in reply to any statement by a US official. How, in any logical manner, can it be construed that Egeland’s comment was a shot directed at the United States or a sneer at the $15M the US contributed? **Weirddave** - made no reference to Egeland, but the comment came in a thread about Egeland’s statement. It’s pretty reasonable to assume that Egeland is seen as a represenative of the “rest of the world” that is so anti-American and ungrateful. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/104 "2004-12-29T16:50:33Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > I ignored that part of your post because it was a stupid and flawed comparison. > > Let’s compare: > > Egeland - made no reference to the United States, the comment did not come in reference to any specific United States contribution, and did not come in reply to any statement by a US official. > > How, in any logical manner, can it be construed that Egeland’s comment was a shot directed at the United States or a sneer at the $15M the US contributed? > > **Weirddave** - made no reference to Egeland, but the comment came in a thread about Egeland’s statement. It’s pretty reasonable to assume that Egeland is seen as a represenative of the “rest of the world” that is so anti-American and ungrateful. So, you leapt to a conclusion, found out it was wrong, and instead of admitting it, now you try to weasel about. You are insisting that you know not only what Egeland thinks, but also what I am thinking, even when I tell you you’re wrong. Grow up, be a man and stop sniveling you pathetic little asswipe. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/105 "2004-12-29T19:54:57Z")
The UK has now upped its pledge to $15 million. Which is just a start, I hope. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/106 "2004-12-29T20:33:38Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > So, you leapt to a conclusion, found out it was wrong, and instead of admitting it, now you try to weasel about. You are insisting that you know not only what Egeland thinks, but also what I am thinking, even when I tell you you’re wrong. Grow up, be a man and stop sniveling you pathetic little asswipe. :rolleyes: OK, big guy. If you say that you weren’t referencing Egeland, then fine, you weren’t Egeland. Unfortunately for you, it’s not an illogical assumption to make. As for me knowing what Egeland thinks, if you can find any evidence that Egeland hates the US, then please feel free to distribute it. Until then, I have never seen any instances of him specifically calling out the US as not giving enough, and in fact, have seen several instances of him specifically praising the US as the largest and most reliable contributer they have. Most recently in reference to the situation in Sudan. Once again, logic is on my side when coming to a conclusion. Now, maybe, Egeland is a secret US hater who has nothing but contempt for the US. That point of view is going to have to be backed up with some specific examples, though. But, it’s all moot, since you don’t actually think Egeland is a US hater. Of course. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/107 "2004-12-29T20:52:03Z")
Here’s a news flash. Other than “some UN bureaucrat”, I don’t know, and frankly don’t care, who Egeland is. My comments were directed at > [@Weirddave](#): > > “The rest of the world” generally > [link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5655508&postcount=27) You’ve been reading something into my post that was never there, and I’d like you to stop. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/108 "2004-12-29T21:12:21Z")
The link is bad, so I’ll reprint the post > [@](#): > > 'Its not our country. What obligation do we have to give them one thin dime? (Understand that this is not my position, but it is a defensible one, IMHO) “The rest of the world” generally has no qualms about telling the U.S. how it should behave and why the policies that it is following are pigheaded and wrong, but when a disaster happens the cry is “Send us more money, more, more, more!” They are not entitled to jack shit. The fact that such a statement is abhorrent to a majority of Americans speaks volumes about where we actually come from as a country. I have no doubt that by the time all is said and done, the U.S. will spend/donate far more actually money, equipment and personnel than any other country, as we should. It won’t make a fig’s worth of difference in 4 months, or 6 months or a year or whenever it is that people want to castigate us as imperialistic warmongers or Zionist puppets or some other such bullshit. Honestly, we should just stop giving aid…except we don’t do it because we’re trying to buy people’s gratitude, by and large, we do it because it’s the right thing to do. We don’t give much aid to the rest of the world in ratio to our GNP–something less than 1%, I believe, so it doesn’t do to preen ourselves on our government’s generosity. Look how badly we’ve shortchanged the efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq, and those are our showcase projects. The initial amount that we said we’d donate, $15 million, is half the cost of Bush’s inauguration! And as much as people like to deride Clinton’s facile emotionalism, people around the world do look to the US for leadership. Bush’s silence during the first impact of this disaster speaks louder than words ever could about his indifference to the suffering the people of Sri Lanka, India, Indonesia, Thailand, Kenya, the Maldives, the Seychelles, and Somalia have endured As for aiding the ungrateful, I believe all of the nations affected by the tsunami have friendly relations with the US, and I know Thailand has contributed troops to the war in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/109 "2004-12-29T22:45:02Z")
> [@Patty O'Furniture](#): > > I’m just guessing here but you read the thread title and nothing else, right? Nope. I read every single post. Better luck next time. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/110 "2004-12-29T23:10:27Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > But yeah $15 million seems like peanuts when we’re talking about 40,000 (and climbing) dead people. And it’s even more nasty in light of what’s about to be frittered away on a party in DC. “For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have for only four more years.” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/111 "2004-12-29T23:25:04Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > We don’t give much aid to the rest of the world in ratio to our GNP–something less than 1%, I believe, so it doesn’t do to preen ourselves on our government’s generosity. Actually, it’s around one tenth of one percent of the US GDP. Eegland has been on a campaign to try to get countries to contribute 1% to development assistance. IIRC, Denmark is closest to meeting that goal, at 0.9 percent. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/112 "2004-12-29T23:47:05Z")
Why would we need to raise taxes anyway? George Bush has a magical money making machine that works by lowering taxes and then spending the proceeds. He isn’t going to get into a debate with himself about whether or not it makes any sense, but hey, it’s Congress’ problem to worry about the details, not his. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/113 "2004-12-29T23:50:58Z")
[India refused aid](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com//articleshow/973923.cms?) until absolutely necessary so it’s not as though we’re exactly begging the US for its thin dimes quite yet. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/114 "2004-12-30T00:08:01Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > The link is bad, so I’ll reprint the post > > We don’t give much aid to the rest of the world in ratio to our GNP–something less than 1%, I believe, so it doesn’t do to preen ourselves on our government’s generosity. Look how badly we’ve shortchanged the efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq, and those are our showcase projects. The initial amount that we said we’d donate, $15 million, is half the cost of Bush’s inauguration! And as much as people like to deride Clinton’s facile emotionalism, people around the world do look to the US for leadership. Bush’s silence during the first impact of this disaster speaks louder than words ever could about his indifference to the suffering the people of Sri Lanka, India, Indonesia, Thailand, Kenya, the Maldives, the Seychelles, and Somalia have endured > > As for aiding the ungrateful, I believe all of the nations affected by the tsunami have friendly relations with the US, and I know Thailand has contributed troops to the war in Iraq. [Stingy Americans? U.N. official’s comment hits nerve](http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/12/28/stingy.americans.ap/index.html) > [@](#): > > The United States uses the most common measure of the Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, a group of 30 rich nations that counts development aid. > > By that measure, the United States spent almost $15.8 billion for “official development assistance” to developing countries in 2003. Next closest was Japan, at $8.9 billion. > > That doesn’t include billions more the United States spends in other areas such as AIDS and HIV programs and other U.N. assistance. > > Measured another way, as a percentage of gross national product, the OECD’s figures on development aid show that as of April, none of the world’s richest countries donated even 1 percent of its gross national product. Norway was highest, at 0.92 percent; the United States was last, at 0.14 percent. > … > “We outmatch the contributions of other nations combined; we’ll continue to do so,” Bush spokesman Trent Duffy told reporters in Crawford, Texas, where the president is spending a post-Christmas vacation at his ranch. > > Natsios said the **Paris organization’s figures overlook a key factor – the billions more Americans give each year in private donations.** > > Americans last year gave an estimated $241 billion to charitable causes – domestic and foreign – according to a study by Giving USA Foundation. That’s up from $234 billion in 2002. The foundation did not break down how much was for domestic causes and how much for foreign. > > “That’s a European standard, this percentage that’s used,” Natsios said. “The United States, for 40 years, has never accepted these standards that it should be based on the gross national product. We base it on the actual dollars that we spent.” > > “The reason is that our gross national product is so enormous. And our growth rates are so much higher than the other wealthy nations.” Personally, I’d rather donate my money where I see fit instead of paying additional taxes to a governmental agency that sends diminished returns for assistance. Apparently, we are dispised for sending little governmental assistance (which will be billions anyways), but with lower taxes, the American people have the resources to send larger amounts on a more personal level instead. I actually feel better doing it myself instead of paying additional taxes and wondering if the full amount is actually going to be spent there, or somewhere else. Also, how our government goes about [assisting.](http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/28/us-quake.ap/) Actually, the CNN TV report on this article was much more informative when it came to the releasing of funds and the subsequent follow ups and assessments. [How To Donate.](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/28/tsunami.aidsites/index.html) From another Pit Thread, I noticed that there are some religious charities listed here that don’t subscribe to the “They Deserved It.” christian philosophy that the OP blanket-stated. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/115 "2004-12-30T00:18:34Z")
> [@](#): > > What really steams me about this is that Egeland has the nerve to recommend fiscal policy changes in America so that we can afford to give more. What a little prick Please read thread before posting. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/116 "2004-12-30T00:35:46Z")
My employer, GE just donated $1 million. But I’m not sure the US government should be giving any money, it might just be another instance of us ‘nation building’. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/117 "2004-12-30T00:49:04Z")
You know, the Bush admin cannot win here. If they give something, it’s not enough. If they give more, it’s looked at with suspicion, “How will we pay for it? What are their motives?” How much would satisfy you as to the purity of the admin’s motives to help out a stricken region of the world and what would be the “correct” amount? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/118 "2004-12-30T01:14:36Z")
They should do what’s right and give with both hands. I find any accusations that the world would react with cynicism to be both irrelevant and (so far) unfounded. It’s chickenshit weaseling. You do what’s right because it’s right, not because you expect to be loved for it. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/119 "2004-12-30T01:17:34Z")
Just out of curiosity, Dio, have you personally forked over some spending money to the cause? I’m not implying you haven’t, but I’m wondering. I have done so, knowing it’s a drop in the ocean and done more for my own conscience than anything. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922/120 "2004-12-30T01:30:49Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Just out of curiosity, Dio, have you personally forked over some spending money to the cause? I’m not implying you haven’t, but I’m wondering. I have done so, knowing it’s a drop in the ocean and done more for my own conscience than anything. Yes, and not just for this cause. I shell out constantly for all kinds of things. I don’t wait for crises. That does not relieve the US government from its own responsibility. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-is-stingy-wtf/281922.md?page=7)