The US is stingy? WTF???

[jjimm]

That is fantastic news. Kudos to the US government.

[Yeticus_Rex]

Some of you guys bitching about the initial $15M as “stingy” should really lighten up. The initial donation was based on initial damages and loss of life. As more accurate assessments come in, there will be more adjustments to the initial donations. Do you want any country to just throw money at the situation without knowing the full extent of the catastropy? <Insert gratuitous Iraqi catastropy slam here> Also commiting ships and human expertise has it’s price as well, and having an immediate floating hospital (one of the U.S. naval ships) is extremely valuable along with some heavy duty transport helicopters to help in resue efforts immediately.

Again, lighten up. Stop acting as if we just closed up the checkbook and put it back in the safe that can only be accessed once per administration. And now, I can see that the $15M was just the beginning.

Apparently, Helmut Kohl witnessed the tsunami first-hand.

[John_Mace]

@jjimm

Fox News was banging on about the comment all day, too. They cleverly obscured the fact that the comment was about all rich western nations (again, why do some people think it’s only the US that’s “rich”?).

I’ve got FOX on right now, and the reporter, Jim Anlge, clearly stated the UN guy mentioned all western nations. They showed a clip of the exact quote.

[Neurotik]

@KidCharlemagne

Oh, your right. He didn’t mean us when he said “rich western nations.” Don’t be so obtuse.

Of course, the US was included in the general comment. Along with everyone in the EU, Canada, etc., etc., etc.

Egeland has no beef with the United States. He has consistently praised the US as one of three significant aid donors in Sudan, and chastised the EU and wealthy Arab nations for not contributing.

To imply that he is some sort of America-hating ingrate, as the more ignorant conservatives posters here have done, is ridiculously inaccurate and insulting. It pretty much shows how the right-wing lie machine works and how easily conservatives lap that shit up without thought and repeat it like good little parrots.

[Jackmannii]

Cynics might note that the part of the initial Egeland quote about raising taxes was unlikely to have been directed at western European nations (who are not generally singled out for insufficiently taxing their citizens), as opposed to the U.S., which recently implemented a recent major tax cut.

We can hope that all parties involved can deal with this tragedy with a minimum of political wrangling from here on out.

[BabaBooey]

@Neurotik

Of course, the US was included in the general comment. Along with everyone in the EU, Canada, etc., etc., etc.

Egeland has no beef with the United States. He has consistently praised the US as one of three significant aid donors in Sudan, and chastised the EU and wealthy Arab nations for not contributing.

To imply that he is some sort of America-hating ingrate, as the more ignorant conservatives posters here have done, is ridiculously inaccurate and insulting. It pretty much shows how the right-wing lie machine works and how easily conservatives lap that shit up without thought and repeat it like good little parrots.

How does the right have anything to do with this guy’s comments? The U.S. indded is part of the rich west, and I don’t think anyone implied that he has a hatred for the United States. Or maybe you’re just pushing your agenda and taking potshots at every opportunity you get?

DtC, no, $5 to $10 won’t affect me even as I struggle to pay for my education. And yes, this is a disastor greater than any other in my lifetime. But how about a few bucks for the train incidents in North Korea and Spain? Should we raise taxes everytime people in other nations die in large numbers? I have no problem donating (and will be shortly), but you’ve got to be on a mighty high horse to condemn someone to hell because they don’t like the idea being forced into being charitable in one particular instance.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@John Mace

I’ve got FOX on right now, and the reporter, Jim Anlge, clearly stated the UN guy mentioned all western nations. They showed a clip of the exact quote.

Who cares? he was right.

I’m glad he was able to shame our government into doing the right thing. Kudos to him. He got more aid to the victims. I wish there were more like him.

[Yeticus_Rex]

@Diogenes the Cynic

Who cares? he was right.

I’m glad he was able to shame our government into doing the right thing. Kudos to him. He got more aid to the victims. I wish there were more like him.

Uh, yeah, right. :rolleyes:

[ivylass]

@elucidator

Halleluja! Hosannas in the highest, yippie skippie, my beloved country is doing something right! I’m as happy as the pig who just heard he missed the luau!

HALLELUJAH!

’luci, you and I may be diametrically opposed, politically speaking, but you never fail to make me smile with your wit and colorful commentary.

[John_Mace]

@Diogenes the Cynic

Who cares? he was right.

I was correcting something another poster had said.

I’m glad he was able to shame our government into doing the right thing. Kudos to him. He got more aid to the victims. I wish there were more like him.

I doubt very, very seriously that this one comment by a UN bureaucrat changed anything the US planned to do. Aid often comes out in different chunks as these disasters unfold.

[Martin_Hyde]

@Neurotik

Once again, idiot conservatives set up a strawman to merrily knock down in order to show their contempt for international organizations. Mr. Egeland did not single out the United States and call it stingy - he grouped it with Australia, Europe, and all those other Western countries.

Second, he did not call the United States people stingy, in fact, he implied they were generous by saying that if the people knew their money was going to relief efforts, they likely wouldn’t mind being taxed. Egeland called the governments stingy with relief money.

Nice argument if one of us had actually lambasted international organizations in general. If you really want to make rants like this, if you ask politely, I’ll say something as stupid as you want me to say (just once) as a Christmas present (belated) so you can make a counterpoint that actually makes sense for once in your life.

[Neurotik]

@BabaBooey

How does the right have anything to do with this guy’s comments? The U.S. indded is part of the rich west, and I don’t think anyone implied that he has a hatred for the United States. Or maybe you’re just pushing your agenda and taking potshots at every opportunity you get?

Hmmm, what does the right have to do with this guy’s comments? Well, let’s see. The Washington Times headline is “UN Official Slams U.S. as stingy over aid.”

You’re telling me that’s not a grossly distorted view of what the guy’s actual comments were, seeing as how it implies that the US was singled out by Egeland? Then there’s this paragraph:

The Bush administration yesterday pledged $15 million to Asian nations hit by a tsunami that has killed more than 22,500 people, although the United Nations’ humanitarian-aid chief called the donation “stingy.”

Which is a blatant fucking lie. He made the general statement that wealthy countries have been contributing less and less to aid, down to .1 or .2% of national income. It also came in the context of describing the difficulties that the agency has been experiencing in raising funds in the past. That general level of aid was what he called stingy - not the $15 million contribution.

Not only that, but Egeland has continuously praised the United States’ contributions to easing the crisis in the Sudan, and contrasted it with several European states and wealthy Arab countries. So it’s most likely that he considers the United States to be one of the more generous western countries. Of course, none of that makes the column.
Then there was Weirddave’s post:

I have no doubt that by the time all is said and done, the U.S. will spend/donate far more actually money, equipment and personnel than any other country, as we should. It won’t make a fig’s worth of difference in 4 months, or 6 months or a year or whenever it is that people want to castigate us as imperialistic warmongers or Zionist puppets or some other such bullshit.

In other words, he’s saying that Egeland is one of the guys who hate America but come around, hat in hand, when they need money. Which is completely incorrect.

[Martin_Hyde]

@Ravenman

Wow. 21 people? That IS an impressive response.

Now, I admit to an apples-to-oranges comparison, but three days after 9-11, Congress appropriated $20 billion to rebuild New York. Now, a couple days after a disaster that has likely killed ten times as many people, we have only sent $15 million and 21 people? That is insulting. I’m not saying that the money we’ve given isn’t useful, nor do I think that we need give billions in aid because of this disaster. But this is really like putting one penny into the Salvation Army’s tin pot after buying a big screen TV at Walmart: Gee, thanks a lot, mister.

This country spends around $18 billion a year on foreign aid, and a third of that goes to Egypt, Israel, and Jordan in the form of economic and military subsidies that gets us… well, I don’t know what that money buys. I truly don’t understand how this prioritization.

However, the EU should be castigated ten times more than the US on this point. The EU and its member nations have a much better contribution rate for foreign aid programs than does the US, and all they’ve coughed up so far is $4 million? Shame!

And finally, the only reference to raising taxes I saw in that article was the interpretation of the shitty Washington Times “reporting” staff. That UN offical made a rather cryptic comment about taxpayers wanting to “give more,” presumably in the way of disaster aid, by my reading. I saw no quote about raising taxes. The UN official made no call to raise taxes. Add that to the fact that the official did NOT single out the US, and we can see that the lesson here, folks, is that the Washington Times is a horrible newspaper that puts its fearmongering, liberal baiting agenda as a more worthy pasttime than accurately reporting the news.

Blah blah blah

Last I checked it’s not smart to sink $20 billion into something until you are fully abreast of the situation. There are many countries involved in this tragedy and the bureaucracy is daunting. If we just give, say, Indian $20 billion we have no idea what’s actually going to happen with that money, if that is the best way we can spend that money et cetera.

In NYC it was pretty simple, X buildings were destroyed, we can very quickly and easily guess how much it will cost to replace said buildings, any infrastructure destroyed, and how much we should consider giving out to families.

[Martin_Hyde]

@Ravenman

Wow. 21 people? That IS an impressive response.

Now, I admit to an apples-to-oranges comparison, but three days after 9-11, Congress appropriated $20 billion to rebuild New York. Now, a couple days after a disaster that has likely killed ten times as many people, we have only sent $15 million and 21 people? That is insulting. I’m not saying that the money we’ve given isn’t useful, nor do I think that we need give billions in aid because of this disaster. But this is really like putting one penny into the Salvation Army’s tin pot after buying a big screen TV at Walmart: Gee, thanks a lot, mister.

This country spends around $18 billion a year on foreign aid, and a third of that goes to Egypt, Israel, and Jordan in the form of economic and military subsidies that gets us… well, I don’t know what that money buys. I truly don’t understand how this prioritization.

However, the EU should be castigated ten times more than the US on this point. The EU and its member nations have a much better contribution rate for foreign aid programs than does the US, and all they’ve coughed up so far is $4 million? Shame!

And finally, the only reference to raising taxes I saw in that article was the interpretation of the shitty Washington Times “reporting” staff. That UN offical made a rather cryptic comment about taxpayers wanting to “give more,” presumably in the way of disaster aid, by my reading. I saw no quote about raising taxes. The UN official made no call to raise taxes. Add that to the fact that the official did NOT single out the US, and we can see that the lesson here, folks, is that the Washington Times is a horrible newspaper that puts its fearmongering, liberal baiting agenda as a more worthy pasttime than accurately reporting the news.

Israel bought us a toehold in the Middle East during the Cold War when it was seen as an area the Soviets were moving in on. There were several key strategic areas that were identified as critically important in terms of containment, these were areas we had to stop the Soviets from expanding in to or we’d be in a lot of trouble. They were Western Europe, the Middle East, North America, South America, and one more I can’t remember right now. Southeast asia (Vietnam), Korea, Africa et cetera were not critical areas and it was said we could let the Soviets do as they pleased there. Of course later U.S. Presidents didn’t follow the containment doctrine perfectly and we got entagled in matters that were not to our benefit geopolitically.

And, Egypt represent a bribe, needed to help keep Egypt and Israel from going after one another.

Not sure about Jordan.

[BabaBooey]

Neutotik , I think you’ll agree that CNN is an unbiased source at best, if not left leaning, but they essentially reported the same information as did The Washington Times:

“In a news conference at U.N. headquarters in New York, Egeland called for a major international response – and went so far as to call the U.S. government and others “stingy” on foreign aid in general.”

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/27/un.tsunami/index.html

So I won’t argue on whether or not her words were manipulated or not as I have not seen the original interview, but claiming that the right has anything to do with it is off base.

[Exgineer]

@elucidator

Halleluja! Hosannas in the highest, yippie skippie, my beloved country is doing something right! I’m as happy as the pig who just heard he missed the luau!

HALLELUJAH!

You can’t buy love, you know.

If you’re serious about your statements in this thread, then you are a cynical bastard I want nothing to do with.

If you’re being sarcastic you are hypocritical little punk.

I just want to help people who are suffering through a major disaster. I don’t care who gets the credit.

[elucidator]

@Exgineer

…If you’re serious about your statements in this thread, then you are a cynical bastard I want nothing to do with.

If you’re being sarcastic you are hypocritical little punk.
…

Didya read the part about stating my arguments in such a way as to sway cynics?

Ah, well, alas. Another night, crying myself to sleep and clutching my banky!

[Weirddave]

@Neurotik

Then there was Weirddave’s post:

In other words, he’s saying that Egeland is one of the guys who hate America but come around, hat in hand, when they need money. Which is completely incorrect.

Nowhere in my post did I mention Egeland, in fact, I wasn’t even thinking of him at all, the pronouncements of petty bureaucrats don’t really impress me all that much. To imply that my blanket statement about “the rest of the world” in general was directed specifically at one person would be absurd, wouldn’t it? Why, that kind of implication would be worth a half a dozen posts pointing out that that wasn’t what I said at all, I think.
I’m thinking of a word…it’s on the tip of my tongue. Hypo…hypno…hyper-cripe…something like that. Damn, I just can’t quite remember that word…

[Exgineer]

@elucidator

Didya read the part about stating my arguments in such a way as to sway cynics?

So you’re just being a condescending asshole, then?

How about if we just help the people in need without trying to make some political capital out of the deal? Or is that a foreign concept to you?

[Neurotik]

@Weirddave

Nowhere in my post did I mention Egeland, in fact, I wasn’t even thinking of him at all, the pronouncements of petty bureaucrats don’t really impress me all that much. To imply that my blanket statement about “the rest of the world” in general was directed specifically at one person would be absurd, wouldn’t it?

Uh-huh. So, you came into a thread specifically regarding a UN Under-Secretary calling out the rest of the world as stingy, with an OP declaring this to be a slight against the US, and then declare that the “rest of the world” are a bunch of ingrates who aren’t appreciative of what aid the US DOES give…and Egeland’s statement wasn’t on your mind.

Right.
[qutoe=BabaBooey]Neutotik , I think you’ll agree that CNN is an unbiased source at best, if not left leaning, but they essentially reported the same information as did The Washington Times:
[/quote]

This is what CNN reported:

In a news conference at U.N. headquarters in New York, Egeland called for a major international response – and went so far as to call the U.S. government and others “stingy” on foreign aid in general.

I would call that more accurate than what the Washington Times reported:

The Bush administration yesterday pledged $15 million to Asian nations hit by a tsunami that has killed more than 22,500 people, although the United Nations’ humanitarian-aid chief called the donation “stingy.”

See the difference?

Guess which one is being circulated in the rightwing blogosphere?