# The US often accuses other countries of using revisionist history books. How accurate are our own? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 7, 2009, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977 "2009-06-07T02:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/81 "2009-06-09T02:00:29Z")
I could not correct this in time: I meant to say that president Polk was felling insulted that Mexico did not sell the land to the US. You see, that was supposed to be an offer that the Mexicans could not refuse. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/82 "2009-06-09T02:12:32Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I could not correct this in time: > > I meant to say that president Polk was felling insulted that Mexico did not sell the land to the US. > > You see, that was supposed to be an offer that the Mexicans could not refuse. Polk got elected with five campaign promises. > [@](#): > > James K. Polk was the most successful president in American history. During the 1844 campaign, he made 5 promises: to acquire California from Mexico, to settle the Oregon dispute, to lower the tariff, to establish a sub-treasury, and to retire from the office after 4 years. When he left office, his campaign promises had all been fulfilled. > **[President James Polk](https://www.classroomhelp.com/lessons/Presidents/polk.html)** > > Fun facts and trivia about James Polk and the other US Presidents and First Ladies. So I don’t know how offended he really was by anything. And definitely it wasn’t much of a request. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/83 "2009-06-09T02:22:43Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Polk got elected with five campaign promises. > > [President James Polk](http://www.classroomhelp.com/lessons/Presidents/polk.html) > > So I don’t know how offended he really was by anything. And definitely it wasn’t much of a request. From the history text book: > [@](#): > > The president sent John Slidell to Mexico City in 1825. As Polk’s personal representative, Slidell could offer up to $25 million as payment for California. > > The Mexican officials refused to see him. President Polk did not take this \*\*insult \*\*to the United States lightly. The bold part is in the text book, and notice that that was just for California. Might as well take it and the rest for less money once you have them at gun point. ---
**Author:** ![Brent220](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@Brent220](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brent220)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/84 "2009-06-09T05:25:47Z")
Sorry if the German student I was speaking with was incorrect on the topic. I just remember my astonishment toward the event. He stated that his school hadn’t focused on that time period and people rather forget about the events in the time period. I didn’t mean to “lie” as was stated in one post. I am pleased to hear that that isn’t so. I feel history has a tendency to repeat itself wether or know we know of it; not an excuse however. I think that absolute power yields the ignorance of the masses. Checks and balances just aren’t balancing in this case. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/85 "2009-06-09T07:51:58Z")
In my high school, the main world history teacher was also the psychology/sociology one, as well as the person in charge of the student body, PTA, and various things like that. No, she wasn’t gifted, she was quite the opposite, and had only a cursory understanding of world history. She used to give out packets of word puzzles and shit photocopied from God knows where and tell us to do them while she sat and did something else (the same largely happened in psychology as well). I remember quite a few days when I’d get bored/pissed off and just start teaching, especially 20th century American history and all the French revolution stuff. She never cared/said a word about me taking over the class, and I never considered my high school education as anything but a joke. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/86 "2009-06-09T09:44:01Z")
> [@Brent220](#): > > Sorry if the German student I was speaking with was incorrect on the topic. I just remember my astonishment toward the event. He stated that his school hadn’t focused on that time period and people rather forget about the events in the time period. I didn’t mean to “lie” as was stated in one post. I am pleased to hear that that isn’t so. **Brent** , I didn’t say you were lying, but either your exchange student lied to you or was painfully ignorant when he told you that the Holocaust isn’t taught – or is forgotten. Don’t take my word for it; here is an excerpt from an official report ([Unterricht ueber Nationalsozialismus und Holocaust](http://www.kmk.org/fileadmin/pdf/Bildung/AllgBildung/Zusammenfassung-Holocaust-November-05.pdf) – education about National Socialism and the Holocaust) by the conference of the ministers of education (2005). I have replaced the German umlauts with an accepted substitute (ae, ue, oe) and a special form of the “s” (the “ß”) with “ss” to make sure that all characters are displayed properly: > [@](#): > > Der Themenbereich Nationalsozialismus und Holocaust ist in allen Laendern in dem Fach Geschichte bzw. – je nach Laenderregelung – in gesellschaftswissenschaftlichen Faechern mit einem hohen Anteil an Geschichte fest verankert und ist verpflichtender Unterrichtsgegenstand in den Jahrgangsstufen 9 oder 10, vereinzelt auch in Jahrgangsstufe 8. In der Regel verlaesst demnach keine Schuelerin bzw. kein Schueler die Schule, ohne etwas ueber dieses Kapitel deutscher Geschichte erfahren zu haben. Hinzu kommt, dass das Thema auch in anderen Unterrichtsfaechern des Sekundarbereichs I, insbesondere in Deutsch und Religion/Ethik mit einer fachspezifischen Schwerpunktsetzung besprochen wird. > > Im Sekundarbereich II sind Nationalsozialismus und Holocaust in einer vertiefenden und groessere Zusammenhaenge aufzeigenden Weise abermals verpflichtender Unterrichtsgegenstand. > > In den Lehrplaenen wird deutlich, dass auf ausserunterrichtliche Aktivitaeten wie beispielsweise den Besuch von authentischen Orten, insbesondere Gedenkstaetten, und den Kontakt mit Zeitzeugen grosser Wert gelegt wird. The gist of it: the Holocaust is part of the official and _mandatory_ curriculum for schools in all the states of the Federal Republic of Germany during the 9th and 10th form; it is taught in more detail in the following forms to deepen the students’ understanding of its context. That a minority of schools fails to follow the curriculum is quite possible – but that’s far from the claim that it isn’t taught. The two most probable explanations, however, are that a) he lied to you or b) he shut down his brain in the classes he wasn’t interested in. Alright, maybe the last one is the most likely alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/87 "2009-06-09T12:42:53Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Just for the record, Canada also fought a war over beef jerky. Okay this I did not know. Which one? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/88 "2009-06-09T13:48:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Which is true but my earlier point referenced the notion that the US stole land from Mexico. This belies the fact that Spanish Mexico was a bloodbath of conquest against the original people of Mexico as was the fighting/displacement of indiginous tribes of the US. All of this is on top of the wars waged between North American tribes. So when the USA attacks, invades and steals it is justified because the other country was not perfect and had done something wrong in its past? That would explain a lot of American history. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/89 "2009-06-09T14:17:50Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I’m surprised that there’s only one mention of James Loewen in this thread. You may not agree wuith him, but he does have a point about history being a partuicularly touchy topic, and with interpretations being exttemely controversial. (His second book, on the topic, {b}Lies Across America\*\*, is also well worth the read – it’s about how historical markers are just as suspect, and subject to group pressure) > There’s little doubt in my mind that Us history textbooks do shade the truth, even without getting to controversies of the Loewen level. Juast go up to Canada and read historical markers about the War of 1812, for instance. In their defense, I do think the textbooks are getting better. I’ve been substitute teaching recently, and I;m impressed with how the textbooks are taking on controversial issues. But there are plenty of pressure groups, simplifications, and prejudices around still. Anyone watin the Real Story is going to have to do reading on their own. I’m a former history teacher and a liberal, but Loewen’s book is bad history. As to the larger point, no competent history teacher is leaving out the warts of American history these days. If anything, those things are over-taught to the detriment of other issues. Besides, as others have mentioned, the larger issue is that there is so much teachers have to get through that they can’t really linger on anything but the biggest events: i.e. the revolution or the civil war. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/90 "2009-06-09T14:27:28Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > The Powhatan Confederation wasn’t on the scale of the Incan or Aztec empires, but it can’t be called “an unsettled region.” > > Bear in mind that some scholars contend that the relative “emptiness” of North America at the time of the English colonization was due to its having been very recently depopulated by introduced epidemic disease that had spread northward from the Spanish conquests. Not just the Spanish conquest. English and French ships were stopping on the Eastern seaboard and interacting with the natives for 100 years before any permanent settlement was established. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/91 "2009-06-09T15:57:58Z")
> [@Brent220](#): > > much like German students aren’t taught about the Holocaust (according to a German exchange student I have had contact with) This is obviously wrong. What year did that German exchange student go to German school? What kind of school? I spent one whole year - 10th form - on 3 Reich in history class. However, we weren’t shown the concentration camp movies, I saw those in the US history class. Maybe the student meant that? ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/92 "2009-06-09T16:14:58Z")
Since some mentioned the “Bay of pigs” incident, I wonder: those history books that mention the Vietnam war, how many call it a just war, and how many show the lies surrounding it? Similar, how many average adult Americans know that the US started the whole Cuba-rockets incident in the 60s by stationing rockets into Turkey pointing at the USSR (same distance as from Cuba to the US) and the Soviets only wanted to restore the previous balance? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/93 "2009-06-09T16:27:17Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Since some mentioned the “Bay of pigs” incident, I wonder: those history books that mention the Vietnam war, how many call it a just war, and how many show the lies surrounding it? > > Similar, how many average adult Americans know that the US started the whole Cuba-rockets incident in the 60s by stationing rockets into Turkey pointing at the USSR (same distance as from Cuba to the US) and the Soviets only wanted to restore the previous balance? I’d say very few high school history classes get this far, or aren’t rushing like mad to finish by the time they get to any discussion of Vietnam or communist Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/94 "2009-06-09T17:06:25Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Okay this I did not know. Which one? The Pemmican War of 1814. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/95 "2009-06-09T17:13:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > On race issues, they swung pretty far towards political correctness, IME. They always mention Harriet Tubman, for instance, but not Edison. > > Not generally a matter of revisionism, although sometimes the Rosa Parks incident is presented as if it were spontaneous, but more a matter of emphasis - Jefferson and Sally Hemings but not Martin Luther King and his women. > > Regards, > Shodan Because having multiple, consensual affairs with groupies is the same as banging a woman you own as property. :rolleyes: What both the left and right typically get wrong about Sally Hemmings is that she wasn’t a black woman. She was a slave, of course, but she was a white woman with a tiny bit of African ancestry. That’s the great thing about American slavery. You could own a hot white chick, and bang her at will! _(By great, I mean, obscene and disgusting, of course.)_ ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/96 "2009-06-09T17:17:04Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > From the history text book: > > The bold part is in the text book, and notice that that was just for California. Might as well take it and the rest for less money once you have them at gun point. True. Point taken. Polk definitely got us a lot of land out of that deal. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/97 "2009-06-10T00:00:00Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > I’d say very few high school history classes get this far, or aren’t rushing like mad to finish by the time they get to any discussion of Vietnam or communist Cuba. I know my Social Studies class in high school (in Canada) never got as far as Vietnam. We did mostly European history and only covered the 20th century up to WWII before the end of the school year. Heck, I took a course in university called _20th Century Warfare_, and we barely covered Vietnam. The vast majority of the semester covered the Russo-Japanese war, WWI, WWII, and the Korean War. Only very rushed on the last couple days of class did we cover the Vietnam War, the Six Day War, the Yom Kippur War, and the First Gulf War. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/98 "2009-06-11T06:06:34Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Really? What’s the point, because I don’t get it. We offered to buy it, they said no, we went to war and took it. Sure maybe this is called “conquering” but how is it distinguishable from “stealing”? Well it’s worse i’n’t? Sort of like burglary vs armed robbery… For my own experience, I didn’t learn most of these things until after high school, but history wasn’t my favorite class at the time, and of course supplemental information is generally more memorable. I don’t think things were revisionist so much as just watered down. I suspect that the myths that I learned at a very early age were not actually from class but were from word of mouth or popular culture. The only two unorthodox things that stand out in my mind from before college/discovery channel/internet were 1. my mom’s friend wrote a book about the average Russian workers when I was in Junior High and a few years before the fall of the Berlin wall when everyone was still scared of nuclear MAD. This opened up my mind to the idea that the Russian people were pretty ordinary and not scary and it was only the Russian government that was actually potentially scary. Which led to me reexamining other prejudices I had. 2. In doing research for a report on Eli Whitney I discovered that the popular myth of him inventing the cotton gin was not exactly true. I don’t know if the war of 1812 was ever covered - if it was I was day dreaming the entire time. I wouldn’t even know it existed if I didn’t later learn from my family that I’m descended from a famous Canadian mythic hero of that conflict. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/99 "2009-06-11T08:40:21Z")
Chinese history school texts are a real trip, especially ww2, in which the Chinese apparently soundly and mostly singlehandedly defeated Japan and were just about to conquer it outright when the Americans dropped the A-bomb purely to try and take all the credit for the victory. Of course, in reality, Japan’s major problem in China was controlling the huge territory and terrain that they captured (a lot of it at first taken with barely any resistance) and not the Chinese ground forces, which were split between the KMT and Communists. The two factions spent almost as much time fighting each other as they did fighting the Japanese. China’s main contribution to the defeat of the Japanese was in tying up a lot of their military force in trying to hold onto a vast captured territories in China while at the same time trying to beat back the US advances in the Pacific. The Japanese pulled troops out of China not because they had lost hope of prevailing against Chinese forces there, but because they were desperate to stop the US advance and couldn’t do both at once. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977/100 "2009-06-11T11:51:11Z")
Errr, 3/4ths of Japans army and more than half of their airforce was tied up in China. There was a good chunck in Burma againts the British and the rest against the Yanks. The war against the US was mostly a naval war. At least until the Phillipines Campaign of 44-45. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-often-accuses-other-countries-of-using-revisionist-history-books-how-accurate-are-our-own/498977.md?page=6)