# The US State Department **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 21, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491 "2011-08-21T02:03:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/1 "2011-08-21T02:03:46Z")
In a nation that makes a distinction between country and state, how is it that the United States department of foreign affairs (or external affairs) is named the " _State_ Department" ? To the best of my knowledge, the US is unique in that regard and it seems somewhat odd that America’s founding fathers deliberately avoided simple convention to create some confusion as to the meaning of the word “state”. Yes, I know. Americans aren’t confused at all .🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/2 "2011-08-21T02:40:57Z")
More or less, the State Department was supposed to be the original Department of Homeland Security: a cabinet department with pretty broad responsibilities. It came to just be focused on foreign affairs. > **[A New Framework for Foreign Affairs - Short History - Department...](https://history.state.gov/departmenthistory/short-history/framework)** > > history.state.gov 3.0 shell ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/3 "2011-08-21T02:53:08Z")
If you willl recall the original Westminster Cabinet ministries, the heads of several departments were not “Minister of \_\_\_” but had special titles like First Lord of the Admiralty or President of the Board of Trade. For historical reasons, three of these special-named offices were Secretaries of State: for Foreign Affairs, for Home Affairs, and for War (the “Foreign Secretary” and “Home Secretary” are the shprt common terms for the first two). The American Secretary of State was originally supposed to do the work of the Home and Foreign ministries, but over time lost most of the Home duties, mostly to the Interior Dept., leaving it responsible for foreign affairs and a few formal acts. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/4 "2011-08-21T05:49:23Z")
For seven glorious weeks, between July 27 and September 15, 1789, we had a Department of Foreign Affairs and a Secretary of Foreign Affairs. But alas, as **Polycarp** says, Congress added some domestic responsibilities to the department, and renamed it the Department of State on the latter date. It’s an awfully generic title, even without considering the special meaning of “state” within the United States. And today, the original title would be much more appropriate. But somehow I don’t think they’ll ever change it back. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/5 "2011-08-21T06:20:09Z")
Many individual American states also have a state government official called the “[Secretary of State](http://www.sos.ga.gov/)”. This may lead to wags asking if this is the person in charge of [border negotiations with Tennessee](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/09/AR2008020902283.html), but of course state-level secretaries of state are just another example of the original “person who has charge of some part of the affairs of state” meaning, and tend to be responsible for some grab-bag of functions (elections, corporate and professional licenses, the state archives, and so on). ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/6 "2011-08-21T12:51:04Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Many individual American states also have a state government official called the “[Secretary of State](http://www.sos.ga.gov/)”. This may lead to wags asking if this is the person in charge of [border negotiations with Tennessee](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/09/AR2008020902283.html), but of course state-level secretaries of state are just another example of the original “person who has charge of some part of the affairs of state” meaning, and tend to be responsible for some grab-bag of functions (elections, corporate and professional licenses, the state archives, and so on). Indeed - in fact, if you Google “Illinois secretary of state” (being a Chicago-area resident, I do that on occasion), the first link that comes up is [branded with the driver licensing features](http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/). We don’t have a separate DMV here in Illinois, so probably most people here who have to deal with the SoS office do so for that reason. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/7 "2011-08-21T15:51:05Z")
I first learned about state Secretaries of States during the 2000 election, where it became apparent that that the Florida Secretary of State had a major role in certifying the results of the presidential election in that state. I’d never even heard of the office before then. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/8 "2011-08-21T16:07:53Z")
Because “State Department” is a name, not a description. Are you actually flying and from Holland, **Flying Dutchman**? Are you the doomed captain of a sailing ship? Why, then, do you call youself **Flying Dutchman**? You should change your name so it describes you. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/9 "2011-08-21T16:37:07Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Because “State Department” is a name, not a description. It is a name, sure. But it was a name given to the State Department for a reason, which has been laid out in the other posts. So I don’t know how answering, “Why is the State Department called that?” with “Because it’s is name.” really is that helpful. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/10 "2011-08-21T22:26:39Z")
**Chuck** wasn’t trying to be helpful. Thanx to the rest of you guys for being helpful. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/11 "2011-08-22T03:37:54Z")
Just to add to what **Polycarp** said, there was originally just one Secretary of State in the English government but, over time, as the duties of the office expanded, the office was divided. At first it was divided into a Secretary of State for the Northern Department and one for the Southern Department, each of which took on some home duties and some foreign duties. In 1782 they redivided the duties of the office, and created the Secretary of State for the Home Department, and the Secretary of State for the Foreign Department. (As time went on the office multiplied still further. During the Napoleonic wars a Secretary of State for the War Department was carved out, and over time came the Secretary of State for the Colonies, the Secretary of State for India, the Secretary of State for Scotland. Today nearly all senior cabinet posts are held by Secretaries of State - for Health, for Education, etc.) When the American colonies broke off and formed the United States, they were familiar with the British system in which the role of Secretary of State had been subdivided between two officers. As a much smaller entity, and with the federal government having only a limited competence, they didn’t feel that they would need that, so they provided for just one Secretary of State, whose role in the federal government was more or less analogous to the combined role of the Northern and Southern secretaries in the British government. Home affairs were always going to be a smaller part of the mix in the US, though, since the federal government had limited competence in that area - an awful lot of the home business of the British Secretaries would be within the province of the several states in the US, not of the federal government. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/12 "2011-08-22T15:08:17Z")
Thankfully, we Americans dropped the practice of incorporating “of state” into every secretarial title. We had a Secretary of War, not a Secretary of State for War, and a Secretary of the Treasury, not a Secretary of State for the Treasury. (In Britain the equivalent title is Chancellor of the Exchequer, but if the British _had_ called the Chancellor a Secretary, he would have been Secretary of State for the Treasury.) Had we not done so we would have had, maybe, a Secretary of State for Matters of State That Don’t Fit Into the Other Departments, which would have been really lame. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/13 "2011-08-22T16:01:45Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > In a nation that makes a distinction between country and state, how is it that the United States department of foreign affairs (or external affairs) is named the " _State_ Department" ? To the best of my knowledge, the US is unique in that regard and it seems somewhat odd that America’s founding fathers deliberately avoided simple convention to create some confusion as to the meaning of the word “state”. Unique in what regard? There are other countries that have sub-national entities called “states” – Australia, India, Brazil, Malaysia, Mexico, Micronesia, Nigeria, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Sudan, and Venezuela. Also, Austria and Germany translate the word _Land_ with the English word “state” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/14 "2011-08-22T16:07:05Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Because “State Department” is a name, not a description. Actually, it’s neither. It’s properly the Department of State. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/15 "2011-08-22T16:08:37Z")
If you’re nitpicking, it’s properly the United States Department of State ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/16 "2011-08-22T17:14:33Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I first learned about state Secretaries of States during the 2000 election, where it became apparent that that the Florida Secretary of State had a major role in certifying the results of the presidential election in that state. I’d never even heard of the office before then. Also in California, the main role of the Secretary of State is dealing with elections. In this state, it is an elected position. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/17 "2011-08-22T19:13:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Unique in what regard? There are other countries that have sub-national entities called “states” – Australia, India, Brazil, Malaysia, Mexico, Micronesia, Nigeria, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Sudan, and Venezuela. He means that the US is unique in referring to the department which deals with foreign affairs as the Department of State. Whether he’s _right_ that the US is unique in the regard, I couldn’t say. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-state-department/593491/18 "2011-08-22T19:20:05Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > He means that the US is unique in referring to the department which deals with foreign affairs as the Department of State. Whether he’s _right_ that the US is unique in the regard, I couldn’t say. The Vatican has a Secretariat of State, which oversees _all_ political issues, but is split into two parts, one of which deals exclusively with foreign affairs.