# The USA: "a pacified public and malleable media" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2016, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490 "2016-03-10T00:24:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/21 "2016-03-10T14:53:22Z")
The burden of proof for you is that someone somewhere was “reasonably clear” about offing 150 people in your name. The world can’t wait for [Google’s robotic soldiers to get up to speed](http://europe.newsweek.com/googles-new-two-legged-robot-future-warfare-429831): Terminator made real ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/22 "2016-03-10T15:03:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It didn’t “come to that”; it’s has always been like that. > > Regards, > Shodan I would tend to agree with that. The question is more when and why other nations stopped doing it. Plus, maybe, are others starting to do it again too? and why? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/23 "2016-03-10T15:25:13Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > The burden of proof for you is that someone somewhere was “reasonably clear” about offing 150 people in your name. Read **griffin1977** ’s link. Apart from that, the burden of proof is on you to show some injustice has been committed. Killing terrorists in Somalia without reading them their rights or clearing it with the ACLU isn’t an injustice. > [@Latro](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > It didn’t “come to that”; it’s has always been like that. > > I would tend to agree with that. > The question is more when and why other nations stopped doing it. I don’t think they stopped. Nobody cares when their government kills terrorists who are trying to kill them. That’s what governments are for, in large part. Sure, it can be abused, and has been. It wasn’t abused in this case. Why aren’t we outraged by this? Because it isn’t outrageous. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/24 "2016-03-10T15:45:51Z")
God, the USA is in all kinds of trouble isn’t it. More and more bombs and death and less and less accountability. How many enemies, how many wars on how many continents is enough? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/25 "2016-03-10T16:00:09Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > God, the USA is in all kinds of trouble isn’t it. Not AFAICT, at least no worse than other times in history. > [@](#): > > More and more bombs and death and less and less accountability. I haven’t seen any less accountability, based on your OP. > [@](#): > > How many enemies, how many wars on how many continents is enough? As of this morning, there are roughly 150-200 fewer enemies than there were. So it’s hard to say “how many enemies” - how many you got? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/26 "2016-03-10T16:07:12Z")
It’s finally what the US military-industrial complex always wanted - the war without end, in other countries, against people who don’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/27 "2016-03-10T16:15:10Z")
[QUOTE=up\_the\_junction] God, the USA is in all kinds of trouble isn’t it. More and more bombs and death and less and less accountability. [/QUOTE] What do you base this histrionic non-answer on, exactly? Do you have cites that we have less accountability? That we are dropping more and more bombs causing more and more death? Hell, that we are in ‘all kinds of trouble’, whatever that means? Do you have anything at all? > [@](#): > > How many enemies, how many wars on how many continents is enough? The thing is, we didn’t exactly pick this fight, it sort of picked us. We haven’t exactly covered ourselves in glory in this thing, and we’ve certainly done our share of fucking up, but that doesn’t mean everything we do is bad or wrong or everything is fucked up. From all indications, this strike against al Shabaab was justified. Most likely you have zero idea who or what these guys even are, based on your lack of understanding about ISIS in other threads, but they are pretty bad news. You make it sound like it’s the US alone fighting basically everyone while The World™ (by which you mean the good people of Europe) stand by in horror. The reality is that the US isn’t going this alone, that many European and other nations are fighting the same fight along side of us. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/28 "2016-03-10T16:21:18Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > It’s finally what the US military-industrial complex always wanted - the war without end, in other countries, against people who don’t matter. You are missing the point - these people do matter to us. That’s why we take the trouble to kill them. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/29 "2016-03-10T16:23:31Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > It’s finally what the US military-industrial complex always wanted - the war without end, in other countries, against people who don’t matter. I seriously doubt that Eisenhower was thinking of a bunch of terrorists in a training camp in Somalia when he said that, nor do I think that the Military-Industrial Complex(tm…arr) was wanting THIS particular war to fill their coffers, since the other kind is where the big bucks are. I also don’t think that Obama is doing what he’s doing to put money in the wallets of the fat cats in charge of the M-I-C ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/30 "2016-03-10T16:31:47Z")
What’s shocking here to me is that peoples are _just now_ figuring this out. We’ve had the Monroe Doctrine in place for a couple centuries and we’ve been using it to make sure Latin American countries elect governments that meet the USA’s satisfaction. Just 30 years ago, we were machine gunning down Nicaraguans who only wanted the right to own real property. They elected a government who promised to take land from United Fruit Company and re-distribute it to the Nicaraguan citizens. In the face of cheap bananas, the USA basically just ignored the slaughter … and obviously quickly forgot. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/31 "2016-03-10T16:34:36Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > What’s shocking here to me is that peoples are _just now_ figuring this out. We’ve had the Monroe Doctrine in place for a couple centuries and we’ve been using it to make sure Latin American countries elect governments that meet the USA’s satisfaction. > > Just 30 years ago, we were machine gunning down Nicaraguans who only wanted the right to own real property. They elected a government who promised to take land from United Fruit Company and re-distribute it to the Nicaraguan citizens. > > In the face of cheap bananas, the USA basically just ignored the slaughter … and obviously quickly forgot. Of course you’re right. But now is global and comfortably global; as Nicaragua was 30 years ago so anywhere on the planet is now. Ambition knows no bounds. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/32 "2016-03-10T16:35:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You are missing the point - these people do matter to us. That’s why we take the trouble to kill them. > > Regards, > Shodan The point is war without end has been achieved. ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/33 "2016-03-10T16:51:12Z")
When groups like this rape and pillage and gun down school kids and malls, then the outcry is, “Why does the rest of the world stand by and let this happen? DO SOMETHING!!” ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/34 "2016-03-10T16:58:52Z")
> [@rock\_party](#): > > When groups like this rape and pillage and gun down school kids and malls, then the outcry is, “Why does the rest of the world stand by and let this happen? DO SOMETHING!!” This is the mistake **up\_the\_junction** is making … he decries these actions as “uncivilized” and expects us to perform as though this was a criminal matter, with all the rights and privileges given to the accused. However, this is war, we’re letting God sort it all out. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/35 "2016-03-10T16:58:56Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > The point is war without end has been achieved. Do you suppose that if only we stopped hunting terrorists that want to kill us, that they would decide we’re not so bad after all and disband? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/36 "2016-03-10T17:06:53Z")
I’d prefer we not go looking for people to kill, but if it turns out we have to kill somebody, drones are a lot better, in my opinion, than sending in ground troops or carpet bombing them. This is just the natural effect of declaring a “war on terror”. The military has no obligation to try every person it kills in wartime. Declaring war on an abstract concept is going to mean giving the military (and its commander in chief) carte blanche to kill all sorts of random people all over the world, even American citizens. If you have a problem with that, you don’t have a problem with drones, or Obama, you have a problem with the very concept of a war on terror. And I don’t necessarily blame you. I think we’re giving a handful of ignorant criminals far too much validity by pretending they’re real soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/37 "2016-03-10T18:02:16Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > In Greenwald’s article, which the OP linked to, this is addressed directly. The United States is not officially at war with Somalia or in Somalia. Thus, under traditional understanding of the concept, the President would not have legal authority to launch airstrikes there. It is perfectly usual for military action not to be accompanied by a declaration of war (the US has only declared war [five times](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States) in it’s history), but I agree with his general point there should be much more coverage and debate of this in the US. But it doesn’t change the fact that its incredibly disingenuous (or just incredibly dumb) to start talking about criminal trials in a case like this (which again is a military attack on a military base in another country), no government of any country would ever consider doing so. This is a military action and a completely justified one at that. It doesn’t push any boundaries in terms of use of military force, it’s about as cut and dried as it gets. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/38 "2016-03-10T18:10:46Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Of course you’re right. But now is global and comfortably global; as Nicaragua was 30 years ago so anywhere on the planet is now. Ambition knows no bounds. Well, 80, but who’s counting? > [@](#): > > The point is war without end has been achieved. I fail to see how refraining from bombing the piss out of al-Shabaab will bring bring war to an end. I agree with **watchwolf49** - expecting this to be conducted as if it were a criminal matter would be a mistake. What are we supposed to do - Mirandize them before we blow up their training camps? #TerroristLivesMatter Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/39 "2016-03-10T18:14:46Z")
The drones should only be dropping subpoenas. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490/40 "2016-03-10T18:24:23Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > This is the mistake **up\_the\_junction** is making … he decries these actions as “uncivilized” and expects us to perform as though this was a criminal matter, with all the rights and privileges given to the accused. Is he? Lets ask him: Greenwald talks a little about criminal process, I’d be happy with even a hint of accountability - who makes the decisions to kill people and on what basis (evidence). That at least has to be transparent in a civilised society. Ultimately, the USA has involved itself in another civil war, from the air. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-a-pacified-public-and-malleable-media/748490.md?page=3)