# The USA and the Metric System. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 17, 2018, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672 "2018-11-17T09:15:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/21 "2018-11-17T22:30:23Z")
He says he doesn’t need a cite. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/22 "2018-11-17T22:39:54Z")
What is meant by this is that the US hasn’t legislated and _mandated_ that all _commercial_ engagements are to use the metric units. The US government is metric, our standards are metric, but our commercial activities are not. The challenge here is that the states have to legislate this and no state is willing to go first because it will cause issues with other states and be unpopular. It is related far more to being a huge republic of independent states with a federal system with limited power than anything else. Making conversion mandatory outside of domains it controls is just not possible for the federal government. The political will would have to come from the individual states to force a move. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/23 "2018-11-17T22:50:27Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > He says he doesn’t need a cite. In Great Debates, it’s commonly expected that one provides cites. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/24 "2018-11-17T22:54:48Z")
Ideally, yes, but he said he doesn’t need one. Sounds like you think he’s incorrect, maybe you should skip the professor act and just post your cite? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/25 "2018-11-17T22:57:17Z")
While I would prefer to switch to SI, it is interesting that post Brexit backlash against metric happened. > **[After Brexit, some Brits want to ditch the metric system, too](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/31/after-brexit-some-brits-want-to-ditch-the-metric-system-too/?utm_term=.2751ba47758c)** > > Goodbye kilograms, hello pounds? Road speed signs and the sale of beer, bread and milk were politically contentious and were never converted, which is why the OP probably can’t provide a cite as the standard for what metrication is opaque and full of exceptions. Telling someone they can no longer sell 2x4’s is challenging even if they aren’t 2" X 4" anyway. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/26 "2018-11-17T23:10:17Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Ideally, yes, but he said he doesn’t need one. Sounds like you think he’s incorrect, maybe you should skip the professor act and just post your cite? No, the person making the claim is the one that needs to provide a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/27 "2018-11-17T23:13:50Z")
Ok keep up the good work. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/28 "2018-11-17T23:20:59Z")
I just looked it up. The CIA factbook names Burma, Liberia, and the US as the only countries who haven’t officially adopted SI. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2018, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/29 "2018-11-17T23:45:56Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I just looked it up. The CIA factbook names Burma, Liberia, and the US as the only countries who haven’t officially adopted SI. The question there is what is “officially adopted” which apparently is always undefined. The US Federal government has adopted it [https://www.nist.gov/pml/weights-and-measures/metric-si/metric-policy](https://www.nist.gov/pml/weights-and-measures/metric-si/metric-policy) And why does the UK pass, when officially they exempted most of the goods that people work with from day to day. > [@](#): > > 1. The changes to the law will afford businesses the opportunity to innovate > as regards pack sizes but the extent to which they opt to do so must be a > commercial decision. [http://www.mcisystems.co.uk/legislation/Guidance\_for\_Business\_on\_Specified\_Quantities\_for\_Pre-packages\_Jan\_09.pdf](http://www.mcisystems.co.uk/legislation/Guidance_for_Business_on_Specified_Quantities_for_Pre-packages_Jan_09.pdf) Note how they just “Exempted” a massive amount of items and quantities to allow trade in imperial units for beer, tea, bread…etc… The EU passed Directive 2007/45/EC to deregulate prescribed packaging of most products besides wines and liqueurs which are both sold in the metric system in the US. While I agree with the goals of the claim in moving us to the SI system, it seriously seems like this is cherry picking and in no way an objective claim. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2018, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/30 "2018-11-18T00:41:18Z")
As far as I know, the entire world uses inches for selling monitors and TVs by size. Cite: [Amazon.fr](http://Amazon.fr), [Amazon.de](http://Amazon.de) ---
**Author:** ![yo\_han\_go](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yo_han_go/32/130_2.png) [@yo\_han\_go](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yo_han_go)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2018, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/31 "2018-11-18T01:29:21Z")
European here with graphic design background. I share your pain ordinary fellows Americans. I have to use and convert DPI’s an PPI’s to metric on daily base … Got even vorse. TV’s used to be sold by centimeres, now we lick inches. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2018, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/32 "2018-11-18T02:26:17Z")
XKCD had part of a [solution](https://xkcd.com/2073/) yesterday… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2018, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/33 "2018-11-18T04:41:05Z")
That reminds me of hearing hardcore “weight-weenie” cyclists talk about this Campy derailleur that weights only 155g, almost 90g less than the next best Shimano, and I have a hard time wrapping my head around those numbers. Though, to be fair, if they were talking ounces, I doubt I could make much more sense of it. I mean, Campy is good stuff, but the only thing I could ever justify was a cloth hat. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2018, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/34 "2018-11-18T05:38:56Z")
In the 1970s, as you may know, there was a concerted effort to move the US toward metric. We were told that it would aid us in foreign trade and scientific accomplishments, and many industries did go metric. But US President Ronald Reagan’s victory in 1980 represented a backlash against Pres. Jimmy Carter’s foreign policy, energy policy, and social policy. Lyn Nofziger, as adviser to the recently elected President Reagan, was opposed to metrication and saw that the government commission promoting it was eliminated in the Reagan budget cuts. Journalist—and adviser to several Democratic officials—Frank Mankiewicz wrote in Nofziger’s obituary: "in 1981, when I reminded him that a commission actually existed to further the adoption of the metric system and the damage we both felt this could wreak on our country, Lyn went to work with material provided by each of us. He was able, he told me, to prevail on the president to dissolve the commission and make sure that, at least in the Reagan presidency, there would be no further effort to sell metric.” Though officially a budgetary move, the backlash against metric was very much in line with the cultural and political currents that had dismissed Jimmy Carter as not being a true believer in American Exceptionalism, and brought Reagan to the presidency. It’s worth remembering that the metric system took almost 50 years to catch on **in France.** People have always resisted imposition of new weights and measures by government authorities. Though metric has great advantages in decimal calculation, that’s not the only criterion by which to judge utility. The ease of halving and quartering measurements in traditional systems shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand. Andros Linklater’s book _Measuring America_ has a fascinating account of the historic tension between folks who need to easily divide by 10 and those who more commonly divide by 4. I’d suggest that a lot more everyday household calculations are dividing by 4 than by 10. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2018, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/35 "2018-11-18T06:20:42Z")
I’m working overseas at the moment and getting along pretty well with metric except for celsius. I always need to convert in my head. Question for native metricians: are your thermostats settable in half degrees? I can clearly tell the difference in 1F. One degree C would be a huge swing in room temperature. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2018, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/36 "2018-11-18T07:22:11Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > I’m working overseas at the moment and getting along pretty well with metric except for celsius. I always need to convert in my head. Question for native metricians: are your thermostats settable in half degrees? I can clearly tell the difference in 1F. One degree C would be a huge swing in room temperature. Celsius works by the 10’s. \> 40C: Too hot to be outside. \> 30C: Hot weather. \>20C: Warm weather, beach weather. \>10C: Sweater \>0C: Need a jackey \<0C: Snow! Same way with height 1.6M:Short for a man 1.7M: Average 1.8M: Tall 1.9: Very Tall 2.0: Extremely Tall Go one forward for a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2018, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/37 "2018-11-18T07:39:51Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Nitpick of nitpicks, but it’s US customary, the US doesn’t use Imperial. They’re mostly the same but the main difference encountered is in liquid measures - US fluid ounces are 4% bigger, but more of them go into the UK larger measures (e.g. 128 US ounces of 29.57 mL per US gallon vs. 160 UK ounces of 28.41 mL per UK gallon). > > I am pretty used to metric, but the one I hate with a passion is Celsius. It might be better for chemistry, but for the human experience it’s not. 0°C for water’s freezing point, and 100°C for its boiling point. What’s not to like? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/38 "2018-11-18T13:18:29Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > 0°C for water’s freezing point, and 100°C for its boiling point. What’s not to like? Except, my brother lives at around 1600m, where the boiling point is about 95°. And water does not freeze at 0°C, ice fully melts at that temperature. 0°F seems to be around the temperature where ice stops having any liquid at all on its surface. I think it is based on the temperature at which snot crystallizes in your nose. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/39 "2018-11-18T13:48:04Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Except, my brother lives at around 1600m, where the boiling point is about 95°. And water does not freeze at 0°C, ice fully melts at that temperature. 0°F seems to be around the temperature where ice stops having any liquid at all on its surface. I think it is based on the temperature at which snot crystallizes in your nose. No, your brother lives at 5,250’ elevation! And, snot crystallization depends on color. Clear snot freezes before green snot does. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2018, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/40 "2018-11-18T14:12:37Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > 0°C for water’s freezing point, and 100°C for its boiling point. What’s not to like? Celsius is more intuitive for cooking, but IMO water’s freezing and boiling point is too compressed a scale for climate. It’s obviously not **unusably** compressed, but I feel like it’s more satisfying for 0 to 100 to be close to the extents of the temperature range. Obviously this depends on area, when I lived in Arizona we got up to 120, and in Central Oregon we only really go from 25-60. Alaska gets well below 0. There are some extreme outliers, but I feel like Farenheit’s range communicates temperature differences better than 5 degrees being such a noticeable variation in comfort (for me at least) in Celsius. I do think Farenheit isn’t perfect. The ideal system may place freezing at 0, comfortable (for most people) at 50, and fuckoff hot but still habitable (for most people) at 100 (maybe around where 120 is now), but the wider scale Farenheit uses is nice. (The one I just proposed may not even have linear unit sizes, but I do think it’s more intuitive in theory). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672.md?page=3)