# The USA and the Metric System. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 17, 2018, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672 "2018-11-17T09:15:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/81 "2018-11-19T21:55:56Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > There’s “no there there” for this in America, we don’t really have a society where it’s expected government in Washington regulates the usage of units of measure in the entire country’s commerce, science, road signage etc. Wait – isn’t the uniformity of basic standards of measure on a _ **national** _ level one of the important aspects of being a _ **nation** _ in the first place? So isn’t the regulation of such therefore one of the most fundamental purposes of a federal government in even the most minimalist views about the role of government? Or should individual states or cities be able to define their own pound, kilogram, mile, or kilometer, and sell goods and regulate traffic accordingly? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2018, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/82 "2018-11-19T22:30:07Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Wait – isn’t the uniformity of basic standards of measure on a _ **national** _ level one of the important aspects of being a _ **nation** _ in the first place? So isn’t the regulation of such therefore one of the most fundamental purposes of a federal government in even the most minimalist views about the role of government? Or should individual states or cities be able to define their own pound, kilogram, mile, or kilometer, and sell goods and regulate traffic accordingly? On the national level the US is on the metric system. The US federal government has limited abilities to force _states_ which are _full sovereign states_ from implementing laws that weren’t granted to to them through law. The federal government does have some control via the interstate commerce clause and by putting conditions on funding but they cannot control commerce by unilateral decree. Basically the federal government doesn’t have the ability to make it illegal to sell groceries in USC amounts. The have required [metric labeling of quantities](https://www.nist.gov/standardsgov/compliance-faqs-packaging-and-labeling-us) which is within their power. The US standards of measure on a national level have been based off the metric system for 120 years. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2018, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/83 "2018-11-19T22:39:10Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Wait – isn’t the uniformity of basic standards of measure on a _ **national** _ level one of the important aspects of being a _ **nation** _ in the first place? So isn’t the regulation of such therefore one of the most fundamental purposes of a federal government in even the most minimalist views about the role of government? Or should individual states or cities be able to define their own pound, kilogram, mile, or kilometer, and sell goods and regulate traffic accordingly? We have the National Institute of Standards and Technology that do establish uniform units of measurement–but we can’t force people to use them. What we do have is agreed upon and government defined definitions of things, so you can’t claim to be selling a product by the pound but the “pound” is a made up unit that only wolfpup uses that equals 14 normal ounces instead of 16. NIST tends to recommend SI units, but that’s all it can do–it can establish the standards for the units of measure and recommend, it can’t force people to use them. The government can prohibit people from “mislabeling”, but it doesn’t generally force people to list stuff in certain units of measure. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2018, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/84 "2018-11-19T22:41:08Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > There’s “no there there” for this in America, we don’t really have a society where it’s expected government in Washington regulates the usage of units of measure in the entire country’s commerce, science, road signage etc. There’s actually some individual U.S. states that have road signs that list KPH and km in distance. There’s tons and tons of individual Americans and American companies that predominantly or exclusively use the metric system. On major road signs? Where is that? One inconsistency I noticed: in some states, exits are numbered based on the mile marker. If 2 adjacent exits are 3 miles apart, they are exit 223 and 226. Other states label them consecutively: these are 223 and 224. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/85 "2018-11-19T23:03:28Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > On major road signs? Where is that? > > One inconsistency I noticed: in some states, exits are numbered based on the mile marker. If 2 adjacent exits are 3 miles apart, they are exit 223 and 226. Other states label them consecutively: these are 223 and 224. There is only one road I19 in Arizona that is full metric but a few states did have both and at least around here most of those dual signs have gone away at replacement. Remember that a significant portions of the electorate felt that the efforts to install Metric sines was a “Communist” or “Arab” plot. Google “Tacmars” for the latest version of this but the UN and FEMA were supposedly putting secret instructions to concentration camps on the backs of these signs to prepare for an invasion. The Reagan administration had to roll back some of the highway funding due to fears like this but there was also the issue that the states were angry the feds were forcing them to pay for these signs. There really isn’t anything blocking states from doing this without the federal government trying to force them to make the change except for the cost and the political will. But note my links to how Brexit and the Imperial system are related and consider why state positions may not want to fight that fight. The US is fairly unique in having 50 “sovereign states” and a weak Federal so this move is a bit harder to get moving. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2018, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/86 "2018-11-19T23:22:29Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > I don’t need a cite for this one. The USA is one of only two countries in the world that hasn’t yet switched over to the metric system. The other one is some obscure country in Africa, I forget the name just now. > > My questions: > [ol] > [li]Why hasn’t the USA switched to the metric system?[/li][li]Will we _ **ever** _?[/li][li]And what are the consequences, if any, of being one of the only countries to do this and be this way?[/li][/ol] > > Thank you in advance for all for your responses:) > > :):)🙂 Metric is just a standard, thats all. Nothing magical about it. For smaller economies you want to go with one standard or the other. In Canada, we gained fuck all from going to the low level metric system (high level metric is every country, USA or otherwise). Had we stayed with Standard American the world would not have collapsed. Metric is a scientific centric set of standards, and American standard is more of a human set of standards. Your mileage will vary depending on if its any use to you. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/87 "2018-11-20T01:43:25Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > One inconsistency I noticed: in some states, exits are numbered based on the mile marker. If 2 adjacent exits are 3 miles apart, they are exit 223 and 226. Other states label them consecutively: these are 223 and 224. States are _supposed_ to all switch to mileage-based exits, but some of them have been dragging their feet for decades. Local businesses will oppose any change, the state will get cold feet, then ten years later the feds will push them to change and the cycle will repeat. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/88 "2018-11-20T02:02:23Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > The US standards of measure on a national level have been based off the metric system for 120 years. The last time I was in the US was considerably less than 120 years ago, and this is what I remember: distances cited in miles, speed limits in MPH, gasoline sold by the gallon, steak sold by the pound, and weather temperatures cited in Fahrenheit and wind speeds in MPH. So while I don’t dispute the veracity of that statement in whatever context it applies, it would appear to be a very narrow context. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > We have the National Institute of Standards and Technology that do establish uniform units of measurement–but we can’t force people to use them. What we do have is agreed upon and government defined definitions of things, so you can’t claim to be selling a product by the pound but the “pound” is a made up unit that only wolfpup uses that equals 14 normal ounces instead of 16. NIST tends to recommend SI units, but that’s all it can do–it can establish the standards for the units of measure and recommend, it can’t force people to use them. The government can prohibit people from “mislabeling”, but it doesn’t generally force people to list stuff in certain units of measure. So it seems that people are “forced” to use the government-imposed arbitrary definition of a “pound”, and states can’t define their own! Having accepted this apparent tyranny of force, it doesn’t seem much of a stretch to mandate the use of metric for all national commerce, on the grounds that it’s, like, what the entire rest of the world uses. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/89 "2018-11-20T02:04:52Z")
FYI, the law that blocked the FHWA from using funding for new projects to encourage the move to the metric system was called. “The Transportation Equity Act for the 21st Century” or “TEA-21” I will give you two guesses on what group was behind that push. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/90 "2018-11-20T06:01:09Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Even though 200m is easier to translate into a kilometer, it doesn’t actually give you more driving information than 500ft. You’re not actively translating the sign distance into a fraction of a larger distance, comparing that fraction to your speed in that larger distance, and calculating an ETA for the exit. Instead, the sign gives you an intuitive sense of how long it will take to get to the exit. If you take a look at the odometer in your car, you will notice the number on the far right indicates tenths. In metric, it is pretty easy to determine when 600M is about to pass. eg. xxx1.7 + 0.6 is xxx2.3. If I’ve gone past that number I’ve missed my exit. Now do the same quickly with 500ft. Hardly intuitive. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/91 "2018-11-20T08:37:42Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > If you take a look at the odometer in your car, you will notice the number on the far right indicates tenths. In metric, it is pretty easy to determine when 600M is about to pass. eg. xxx1.7 + 0.6 is xxx2.3. If I’ve gone past that number I’ve missed my exit. Now do the same quickly with 500ft. Hardly intuitive. Same thing but that was a bad choice of examples 5280/10 = 528 feet ~ 500 feet per .1 mile. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/92 "2018-11-20T09:12:48Z")
Next exit 500 feet also means you should’ve been moved over already. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/93 "2018-11-20T12:11:05Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > If you take a look at the odometer in your car, you will notice the number on the far right indicates tenths. In metric, it is pretty easy to determine when 600M is about to pass. eg. xxx1.7 + 0.6 is xxx2.3. If I’ve gone past that number I’ve missed my exit. Now do the same quickly with 500ft. Hardly intuitive. Nobody should be looking at their odometer to decide when to move over for an exit. At highway speeds, 500ft goes by fast enough that you’ve missed the exit by the time you glance down at the odometer. My point is, these distance signs aren’t intended to require precise calculations of time and distance. They are guidelines, if you are interested in a particular exit when that exit’s number comes up, the signs will guide you: Exit is far away Exit is getting near Exit is almost here Exit is right past this sign There is no need to translate feet into miles, the fact that it’s annoying to do so is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/94 "2018-11-20T14:39:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **OldGuy** : > > You meant accurate. I’m not sure at all how accurate my home thermostat is, but it is precise. At the beginning of the season, I set it. If I’m chilly, I push it up 1 degree F and I can tell the difference. No, I meant precise. Thermostats have what is called a hysteresis range. If you set the thermostat to 72º, then it’s not going to turn off the furnace as soon as it hits 72º. It’ll wait until it gets to some temperature that’s a little higher. And once the furnace is off, it’s not going to turn it back on again as soon as it drops below 72º. It’ll wait until it gets to some temperature that’s a little lower. And that hysteresis range is usually a few Fahrenheit degrees. Maybe the thermostat is very accurate, meaning that when you set it to 72.0, the center of that range really is 72.0 . But it’s still got a wide range around that, so it’s not precise. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/95 "2018-11-20T15:28:21Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The last time I was in the US was considerably less than 120 years ago, and this is what I remember: distances cited in miles, speed limits in MPH, gasoline sold by the gallon, steak sold by the pound, and weather temperatures cited in Fahrenheit and wind speeds in MPH. So while I don’t dispute the veracity of that statement in whatever context it applies, it would appear to be a very narrow context. > > So it seems that people are “forced” to use the government-imposed arbitrary definition of a “pound”, and states can’t define their own! Having accepted this apparent tyranny of force, it doesn’t seem much of a stretch to mandate the use of metric for all national commerce, on the grounds that it’s, like, what the entire rest of the world uses. All units of measures are arbitrary, even metric ones. What **rat avatar** is talking about is that NIST actually uses metric units of measures, and further–NIST since 1893 has defined many of the American customary units of measure as they pertain to the metric units–i.e. the official definition of a mile is a unit of measure equal to 1609.344… meters. What we haven’t done is passed laws that would allow the government to force most businesses to switch to using this system, while it’s _possible_ we might be able to with commerce clause powers, our Federal government just hasn’t historically been that intrusive into these matters, it’s usually State governments taking the lead. At least for most of my adult life there have been a number of things commonly sold in metric units: Soft drinks are sold in 12oz and 20z single serve containers, but are frequently sold in 1L, 2L, and 3L containers. All hard liquor I’ve bought since I can remember has been in metric units. 1.75L, 1L, 750ml. 750ml bottles are called “fifths”, and 1.75L bottles are called “half gallons”, I suppose because long ago liquor was sold in fifth-gallon and half-gallon bottles. But 750ml is only “close” to a 1/5th gallon, not equal (1/5th gallon is 757ml), and a half gallon is 1.89 L not 1.75L. I believe every medication I’ve ever been prescribed has been enumerated in mg. Guns and ammunition are sold in a hodge podge of standards. For example 9mm weapons/ammo are very common, as are standardized 7.62mm and 5.56mm. But it’s also very common to find weapons/ammo in .22 cal, .32 cal, .38 cal etc (a .22 round is actually 0.223-0.224 in. in diameter.) As a life long weight lifter, I can’t remember the last time I saw an iron plate weight anywhere that wasn’t denominated in both pounds and kg, and in fact they tend to be “standardized” to the kg. What this means is if you buy a 45 “lb” plate, it’s actually more likely than not actually 20kg. 20kg actually = 44lb. You can find some that are actually “real pounds”, but most are actually accurate to the metric weight listed on the plate and they just show the “close equivalent” customary unit. I would say that the typical American is actually pretty familiar with the metric units of measure for volume. That’s probably the only part of the metric system people are really conversant in for day to day use. I think weight, most people probably don’t intuitively know kilograms, they know their medications are sold in mg but that’s such a small amount it’s hard to intrinsically conceive of what 100mg is vs 200mg. I think we’d get more people to have a better “feel” for metric units of length if we emphasized that the meter is very close in length to our yard, which Americans tend to be more familiar with. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/96 "2018-11-20T15:51:32Z")
FWIW, the “nautical mile” and not the “statute mile” is the intrinsically superior unit of measure for navigation. having owned a gray market car with a KM only speedo it doesn’t take much to just start using them for yourself if you wish if you are good with rational numbers. If people started just choosing to use the metric system they could mostly replace the USC units as most things outside of gas and road signs are double marked or in SI units already. Unfortunately the number of miles to buy a pound of sugar and a 40oz of beer is what prevented migration. People don’t like change, and while I get that lots of people don’t like fractions and the changing scale of USC is a lot more to deal with it is just way down on the list of priorities for people. For most cases the SI system is easier math, but that is a hard sell to the people who hate _all math_. The people who don’t fear math typically don’t have a problem learning their fractions so it isn’t as much of a benefit for them either. If you are pro-si (or at least pro-unified units) just start using them even when interacting with others. Heck maybe buy your parents a set of metric measuring cups and a kitchen scale for Christmas and show them how using weight makes baking more consistent. I know that the reality that other political concerns outweigh the willingness of people to lose elections by forcing a change to the Metric system may be frustrating, but just start using it yourself and make others comfortable and that change won’t be so politically expensive anyway. The discussion is always driven around math phobias or convenience, while ignoring we live in a country where pervasive irrational math anxiety blocks peoples actual career success. They aren’t going to drop that math anxiety to adopt international standard units. Remember we live in a country where most people would take being called “stupid” as an insult but will simultaneously brag about how bad they are at math. They simply don’t care about the finer points of decimal vs rationals. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/97 "2018-11-20T17:19:47Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Metric is just a standard, thats all. Nothing magical about it. For smaller economies you want to go with one standard or the other. In Canada, we gained fuck all from going to the low level metric system (high level metric is every country, USA or otherwise). Had we stayed with Standard American the world would not have collapsed. You weren’t American standard, though. For example, you had Imperial gallons instead of US gallons. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/98 "2018-11-20T18:04:05Z")
The Perfect Master speaks: [Whatever happened to adoption of the metric system in the U.S.? - The Straight Dope](https://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/947/whatever-happened-to-adoption-of-the-metric-system-in-the-u-s/) Previous related threads: > **[How do you feel about the metric system?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=749705)** > > I’m watching an episode of Aircrash Investigation, and I find it strange that a program produced in Canada about a crash in Canada is narrated with Fahrenheit and miles, even though the military in the reenactments talk about “kliks”. We could go... > **[How confusing/unintuitive is the metric system to the average American?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=750320)** > > Being only used to the metric system myself, I am always struggling when I have to convert centimeters, meters and kilometers into inches, feet and miles. As far as temperatures go, I do know that 32 degrees Fahrenheit is the freezing point of water... > **[The United States and the metric system.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=536282)** > > Is the United States the only country not using the metric system? [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=858555](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=858555) ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/99 "2018-11-20T18:20:34Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Other states label them consecutively: these are 223 and 224. That is because those states were dropped on their heads as babies. Consecutive exit numbers provide no value whatsoever. Exit numbers by mile marker is the only rational way to do it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672/100 "2018-11-20T18:45:58Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > I am pretty used to metric, but the one I hate with a passion is Celsius. It might be better for chemistry, but for the human experience it’s not. And it is no more Metric than F. Not to mention Celsius pleaded for them not to name it after him, but has been ignored. F is simply better for us humans. C is no more scientific. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-and-the-metric-system/824672.md?page=6)