# The USA is not now and may never be ready for a woman President **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371 "2017-08-22T15:15:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/181 "2017-12-18T16:19:22Z")
Trump ridiculed the electorate? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/182 "2017-12-18T16:51:44Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Trump ridiculed the electorate? Yes. Repeatedly. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/183 "2017-12-18T17:03:46Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Nobody in their right mind calls people they hope to represent as the leader of their country “deplorable”. It’s ridiculously arrogant, dismissive, condescending and judgemental - rather as you demonstrate, and it’s hopelessly divisive. > > Is there anyone in history who has stood for election and dismissed half the electorate in such terms? Fuck her and the smart arse liberal high horse she rode in on. > > Worst. Political. Judgment. Ever. It sure would be if that was indeed what she said. It wasn’t, however. Like so many such memes, it was something taken out of context, stripped of nuance, and blasted around the world, because it was something a lot of people wanted her to have said. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/184 "2017-12-18T17:07:57Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > No. What it won’t take is Hillary Clinton, ever. The libs made the mistake of running her, and you people have to live with it. > > I can think of several women that I would love to see as POTUS, and they are extremely qualified to hold the office - much more so than Hillary. Right off the top of my head: Laura Ingraham, Ann Coulter, Condoleezza Rice, Carly Fiorina and my wife. Let’s not forget my good dog Bonnie. Except for Rice, and the unknown quantity of your wife, I’m sure she’d make your list, based on what looks like your criteria. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/185 "2017-12-18T18:19:22Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > It sure would be if that was indeed what she said. It wasn’t, however. Like so many such memes, it was something taken out of context, stripped of nuance, and blasted around the world, because it was something a lot of people wanted her to have said. Sure: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/OZHp4JLWjNw/hqdefault.jpg "Clinton: Trump supporters in 'basket of deplorables...") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZHp4JLWjNw) ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/186 "2017-12-18T18:26:22Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > It sure would be if that was indeed what she said. It wasn’t, however. Like so many such memes, it was something taken out of context, stripped of nuance, and blasted around the world, because it was something a lot of people wanted her to have said. That’s simply the nature of memes, fair or not. Dukakis in the tank. Kerry and swift boats. GHW Bush’s Read My Lips. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/187 "2017-12-18T18:29:39Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > The only guy impervious to this taint is the Groper in Chief. It does help that Senator Doug Jones, the white knight of sexual assault victims everywhere, said that Trump should not resign. > [@](#): > > The winner of the Alabama special election, Democratic Senator-elect Doug Jones, says it’s time to move on from the sexual misconduct allegations that have been made against President Donald Trump. > > Jones told CNN’s Jake Tapper on “State of the Union” Sunday morning that he doesn’t agree with some in his party who say Trump should resign from office over the sexual harassment and sexual assault allegations against him, which Trump has denied. > > “(T)hose allegations were made before the election, and so people had an opportunity to judge before that election,” Jones said. [source](http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/17/politics/doug-jones-sotu-cnntv/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/188 "2017-12-18T18:46:09Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I hope you’re right, because I want to be wrong. I think its becoming clear that you are. On several fronts. > [@](#): > > I’ll thank you not extrapolate my logic. I believe the deep-seated antipathy toward women is more insidious and widespread than the resistance to a black MAN in office. Extrapolating logic is a pretty important part of debate. I you come up with a theory and your theory doesn’t work when applied to analogous facts, then perhaps its not much of a theory. The misogyny in America is pretty light compared to other countries that have seen female heads of state. Perhaps Hillary was just a bad candidate. > [@](#): > > Obama was not a typical candidate, black or white. He wasn’t your run-of-the-mill regular Joe like most of the doofuses in public life. He was a star, a superstar, even. Yeah, he wasn’t good at the give-and-take and backroom haggling that is all successful politics. He expected his opposition to play fair, but he encountered racial hatred (I’m lookin’ at you, Mitch McConnell). Obama was black. But he was a MAN, so not a candidate for any of those criticisms typically hurled at successful women. This reminds me of he time when gay people pretended they had it worse than blacks and then gay black people came out and said “are you crazy?” > [@](#): > > Like I said,\* I’d love to be proven wrong.\* I’d love for a strong, smart, charismatic woman to rise up from the ranks, a woman who raised her children, and still managed a successful career AND a successful marriage. Who can write a book or a speech and still bake killer chocolate chip cookies. Who will not be accused of being shrill, uppity, unfeminine, a ball-buster, subject to hormonal fluctuations that make her unstable. Who will not be criticized for being too concerned with fashion (She wears expensive designer dresses!) or too frumpy (She always wears pants–when are we going to see her in a dress!)). Who won’t be seen as too sexy (or too sexless). And blahblahblah endlessly with pointed barbs that men are not subject to. > > Hillary hit all of those hot buttons. Any woman prominent in public life is going to hit a lot of them. Men are not scored on any of them. Women are subject to different disadvantages than racial minorities but for every obstacle women face I can point to an obstacle that black men face that white women do not face. Perhaps Hillary was just a bad candidate. > [@](#): > > Facts don’t just go away because you don’t like them. Irrelevant facts, but facts nonetheless. Yayy Hillary ran up the biggest Calfirona margin in history. She won California by over 4 million votes. In the meantime if she had 100,000 more votes in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan, she could be POTUS right now. But she never even went to some of those states. Maybe she is just a bad candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/189 "2017-12-18T18:54:01Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Beside the point. Not interested in discussing your take on the rules of debate. > > I believe the obstacles to electing a woman president are not only vastly different from, but vastly greater than the obstacles to electing a black man president. Do you think they are identical and interchangeable? > > Easy. Governor =/= President > > Convince me of your point. Please. Make me believe. I want to. Maybe Hillary lost because she is bad at being a politician. Smart money is still on the white man but its no harder for a white woman than it is for a black man. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/190 "2017-12-18T18:59:33Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > It’s one hundred percent relevant when talking about popular choice and support. No, no its not. Voter turnout in “safe states” is traditionally low. Hillary just happened to energize high voter turnout in a safe state, California. Her nationwide lead was 3 million. Of that 3 million popular vote advantage, 4 million was from California. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/191 "2017-12-18T19:32:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Maybe Hillary lost because she is bad at being a politician. > > Smart money is still on the white man but its no harder for a white woman than it is for a black man. She was a poor choice, too conservative to win over the progressives, too hated by the Right to attract a lot of swing voters. I held my nose to vote for her, but had the other side not put forth a true fascist I probably wouldn’t have been driven to vote. While sexism is alive and well, and she did lose votes for having the _wrong parts_ she wasn’t even close to being the best choice for the first serious Democrat female candidate. I also felt her husband was more like George Herbert Walker Bush than a progressive, and in full disclosure; Tipper Gore also made it hard for me to vote for Al Gore, she was in bed with the Eagle Forum and the PMRC. The Eagle Forum and Phyllis Schlafly, is one of the largest anti-feminist, pro-life, anti-gay and ultimately anti-free speech organizations in America. I didn’t want Tipper Gore as a First Lady just as I didn’t want the sexist and homophobic Bill Clinton in that role. Bill Clinton will always be the president of DOMA in my mind, no matter if he was a Democrat or not. I know lots of reliable Democrat voters that felt the same without giving one hoot about what private parts she had. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/192 "2017-12-19T01:06:53Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > I know lots of reliable Democrat voters that felt the same without giving one hoot about what private parts she had. I’d think that their opinions don’t matter in terms of electoral success. Isn’t it only the _unreliable_ voters who make the difference? > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Maybe Hillary lost because she is bad at being a politician. After eight years of a Democrat in the White House, the GOP starts out ahead. Every candidate has strengths and weaknesses. One strength Hillary had was the good US economic performance when her husband was president. Some of the younger people here may not recall that, but older people who do remember vote a lot. And that’s where Bernie Sanders is, in an electoral sense, weak – because the world socialism is not a electoral positive in the US. On economics, Hillary was strong, and you can’t assume someone else would be. At the national level, no candidate is immune to opposition research. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > It needs to be a leader with some charisma. One theory is that after an exciting President, people want someone boring, and visa versa. Boring sounds good to me right now (and I am a swing voter). Another theory, which I hope isn’t true, is that it doesn’t matter who the candidate is – all that matters is whether it is a Democratic or Republican year. The fact that Donald friggin’ Trump could, in 2016, beat a mainstream Democrat, provides evidence in that direction. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/193 "2017-12-19T01:56:22Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > This reminds me of he time when gay people pretended they had it worse than blacks and then gay black people came out and said "are you crazy?” Gay people just “pretended” they had it worse? That comment is asinine. In many ways it was demonstrably more difficult to be gay than to be black. When in many states discrimination against gays was legal it was worse in at least some aspects. It’s also hardly clear that “gay black people” disagreed despite your claim. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/194 "2017-12-28T13:23:11Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Woman. Black man. Piffle. 99.99% certain. > > I won’t live to see an atheist elected president. I’m sure there were several in your lifetime. You don’t get to be President by being so stupid as to admit you’ve ever had a crisis of faith. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/195 "2017-12-28T13:34:41Z")
The fact that Hillary was considered the Heiress Apparent for so long pretty much demonstrates that the US was ready for a woman President. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/196 "2017-12-28T13:57:26Z")
> [@nachtmusick](#): > > The fact that Hillary was considered the Heiress Apparent for so long pretty much demonstrates that the US was ready for a woman President. The country WAS ready a year ago, but the Hillary debacle ruined chances for any woman candidate for many years to come. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/197 "2017-12-28T15:11:02Z")
People react. They’ll want whatever Trump is not. That means that they will vote for women. Trump may turn out to be the best thing that ever happened for feminism. ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/198 "2017-12-28T15:57:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If someone like Nikki Haley ran and got significant support from other women, she’d win handily. She was rock solid at the U.N. the other day. It’s way too early, but could see myself voting for her. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/199 "2017-12-28T16:05:05Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > She was rock solid at the U.N. the other day. It’s way too early, but could see myself voting for her. You mean when she said they better play nice or we’d take all our marbles and go home. Yeah, really mature. :rolleyes: I heard her on the radio and she sounded like a kindergartner. ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/200 "2017-12-28T16:16:32Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I heard her on the radio and she sounded like a kindergartner. Considering she was addressing the U.N., that would be audience level appropriate.😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371.md?page=11)