# The USA is not now and may never be ready for a woman President **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371 "2017-08-22T15:15:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Bobdavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@Bobdavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobdavis)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/121 "2017-08-28T17:30:25Z")
The US was ready for Elizabeth Warren but the people in charge are too idiotic to be able to cultivate those with the most potential, with respect to what the majority craves. That’s a mouthful. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/122 "2017-08-28T17:34:41Z")
> [@gatorslap](#): > > Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by a substantial margin and only lost in the electoral college by losing three states very narrowly. If she had lost because the country wasn’t ready for a female president, I would think she would have lost more decisively. As it went, any number of things could have tipped the election to her. This. Reminds me of some posters who say that Florida was “rigged” for Bush in 2000 and that Gore should have spent his campaign resources in other swing states instead. “Rigged” when the outcome difference was 0.01%? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/123 "2017-08-28T20:36:57Z")
> [@Bobdavis](#): > > The US was ready for Elizabeth Warren but the people in charge are too idiotic to be able to cultivate those with the most potential, with respect to what the majority craves. > > That’s a mouthful. If the people were ready for Elizabeth Warren, then why the heck didn’t Elizabeth Warren run for president already? It’s all very well and good to pontificate about what the public really wants. But the way the public shows these things is by actually voting. You think the Republican establishment in 2016 wanted Donald Fucking Trump? Of course they didn’t, but the problem for them is that Trump got more votes than anybody else. So of course the Democratic establishment in 2016 didn’t want Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders. They wanted Hillary. They backed Hillary. But they also backed Hillary back in 2008, and look how far that got her. But in 2016 the only person running against her in the primary was Sanders. And Sanders didn’t get as many votes as Hillary. That’s just the facts. Would Sanders have done better if the Establishment had backed him, or played fair and didn’t support Hillary? Sure, probably? But so what? Why do you think they didn’t support Sanders? If Sanders had been the type of person who would get the support of the Democratic establishment, he wouldn’t have been the candidate you wanted. Elizabeth Warren is not the transformative candidate you’re looking for. The Democratic establishment is never going to talk up someone with left-wing economic views, because they’re the establishment. If you want an economic left winger you’re going to have to get used to the idea of winning against the establishment, not somehow winning over the establishment. You only win over the establishment AFTER you’ve beaten them. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/124 "2017-08-30T13:11:11Z")
The U.S. will probably elect a woman President in my lifetime, and she’s to be center to right of center, with hawkish views on military intervention abroad (HRC would have mostly qualified, but the amount of negative baggage she carried (which would’ve required a major Air Force One fleet expansion) has ruled her out to this point. Not that she’s quit trying. Surprising that Maxine Waters was cited as an example of an accomplished female candidate derided due to gender. Beyond dipping into conspiracy theory (i.e. promoting the idea that the C.I.A. was responsible for the crack epidemic) she’s been cited as [one of the most corrupt members of Congress](https://www.citizensforethics.org/press-release/maxine-waters-named-most-corrupt-member-of-congress/) by a liberal watchdog group. _“According to Chuck Neubauer and Ted Rohrlich writing in the Los Angeles Times in 2004, Maxine Waters’ relatives had made more than $1 million during the preceding eight years by doing business with companies, candidates and causes that Waters had helped. They claimed she and her husband helped a company get government bond business, and her daughter Karen Waters and son Edward Waters have profited from her connections. Waters replied that “They do their business and I do mine.”[60] Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) named Waters to its list of corrupt members of Congress in its 2005, 2006, 2009 and 2011 reports. She was accused of using her position to prevail upon officials to meet with OneUnited Bank without disclosing that she and her husband had significant stock holdings in the company.[61] Since she was on the Financial Services Committee she largely had the role of determining where TARP funds would go. $12 Million in TARP funds went to OneUnited without her ever disclosing that she had a financial stake at the company.[62][63][64] Citizens Against Government Waste named her the June 2009 Porker of the Month due to her intention to obtain an earmark for the Maxine Waters Employment Preparation Center.”_ > **[Maxine Waters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxine_Waters)** > > Maxine Moore Waters (née Carr; born August 15, 1938) is an American politician serving as the U.S. representative for California's 43rd congressional district since 1991. The district, numbered as the 29th district from 1991 to 1993 and as the 35th district from 1993 to 2013, includes much of southern Los Angeles, as well as portions of Gardena, Inglewood and Torrance. > A member of the Democratic Party, Waters is in her 17th House term. She is the most senior of the 12 black women serving in ... ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/125 "2017-08-30T21:16:54Z")
Sure, just like it was firmly believed that the first black president would be a Republican. The first woman President will be whoever the first woman President turns out to be. She’ll be a real person, not a Frankensteinian monster cobbled together by focus groups. A few decisions made differently, and it could have been Hillary, despite all her faults. I agree though that the first woman President isn’t going to be some radical left-winger, because America isn’t going to vote for a radical left wing candidate for President, male or female. That’s firmly outside the American political mainstream. And the only President in the modern era who was elected from outside the political mainstream is Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/126 "2017-12-14T18:12:36Z")
I’m giving this a bump to see if there’s more discussion. The climate WRT to women in public life has changed since August when I started this thread. There’s been a shift…a disillusionment with men in public life, a ripple in the Force. The grind is not so firm for men as it was. What do y’all think, in light of recent developments? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/127 "2017-12-14T19:17:11Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Look at the numbers from 2016. Black voting participation declined by seven percentage points. If African-Americans in those three states we keep hearing so much about had voted at the rate they had voted for Obama, Clinton would have won all three states. > > To says to me that a non-white candidate is essential in 2020. > > I don’t see any non-white female politicians with the name recognition and status to even win the nomination. Oprah, maybe, could. That would be a sight to see. We’d have to extend light-night shows to 24 hours to handle the joke volumes. > > Realistically, though, we have to stop the false narrative about white men taking back their country and voting for Trump. They’ve peaked. What hasn’t peaked is the non-white vote. Get them to the polls and everything changes, including whether a woman can win. While the percentage of women voting Democratic increased in the Alabama Senate election this week, of greater significance is that the black vote far exceeded all expectations. Doug Jones made a special effort to woo black voters and it appears to have made the difference. Black women, BTW, voted 98% for Jones. I’m encouraged that women are running for races at every level, because building numbers at local and low levels increases chances for higher office. At the Senate and Presidential level, though, being a woman does not yet seem to be the tipping point and I’d be surprised if the 2018 races changed that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/128 "2017-12-14T19:28:15Z")
After she does a term for Governor of Oregon, [I could get behind a “Tina Kotek For Prez” campaign.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tina_Kotek) ---
**Author:** ![Smitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Smitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smitty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/129 "2017-12-15T18:27:58Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > This comes under the heading of Sad But True: only a white man can defeat Donald Trump. So you are of the opinion that, were he able to run again, Obama would have lost to Trump? Yeah, your argument kind of falls apart on that one. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/130 "2017-12-15T19:00:22Z")
I missed this thread earlier this summer but the topic caught my eye today as timely since I[had just read this piece from The Atlantic.](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/the-partisanship-of-feminism/548423/) I think a simple acknowledgement that women are equally qualified for the country’s highest positions of leadership will be one of the powerful sources driving 21st century politics because the trend will be in a one-way direction. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/131 "2017-12-15T21:10:07Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > I missed this thread earlier this summer but the topic caught my eye today as timely since I[had just read this piece from The Atlantic.](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/the-partisanship-of-feminism/548423/) I think a simple acknowledgement that women are equally qualified for the country’s highest positions of leadership will be one of the powerful sources driving 21st century politics because the trend will be in a one-way direction. There are absolutely many women who are qualified. That’s not the issue. It’s not the candidates who are backward, it’s the voters. That may have changed since so many heretofore esteemed men have recently been found to have…er…_feet_ of clay. That’s why I resurrected the thread. What do you mean by “the trend will be in a one way direction”? Not clear to me. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/132 "2017-12-15T21:21:21Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > IMHO it’s very important that Donald Trump not be reelected in 2020, given that he’s still in office by then and runs again. But if the Democrats nominate another woman (Elizabeth Warren’s name pops up) I believe they will be throwing the election away. Likewise a non-white man-- no matter how qualified. > > This comes under the heading of Sad But True: only a white man can defeat Donald Trump. > > As bad a Presidential candidate as Hillary may have been (even though she was widely described as possibly THE single most qualified candidate ever to run for President), if she had been a white man, s/he could have beaten Trump. Apart from all of her “crimes” (real and/or fabricated), including personal/professional/fashion/demeanor/hairstyle faults and failings, I’m convinced that the sheer, visceral hatred of Hillary comes down to her being a woman. People hate her more than they hate Bill-- go figure. There’s a very wide streak of _“No woman is going to be the boss of me!”_ running right down the center of the country. Other developed countries don’t seem to have this-- again, go figure. > > \*Ever \*is a long, long time, but I’m going to go out on a limb: I don’t think the USA will ever be ready for a woman President. What do y’all think? Hillary Clinton was Lady Macbeth in the flesh, full of ambition scandals, and lies. There is no reason why a woman cannot be president, but I suspect there will not be a major party candidate that is female on the ballot for President in the next eight years. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/133 "2017-12-15T22:14:08Z")
I suspect that if we looked it up, most states have had a female win a state-wide election at some point in their history, probably quite recently. The voters aren’t backwards, they just didn’t like that one particular woman enough for her to win. If someone like Nikki Haley ran and got significant support from other women, she’d win handily. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/134 "2017-12-15T22:24:55Z")
> [@Smitty](#): > > So you are of the opinion that, were he able to run again, Obama would have lost to Trump? Yeah, your argument kind of falls apart on that one. I don’t know. Could Obama have beaten Trump in 2016? Could Obama beat Trump in 2020? I don’t know. > [@Silver\_lining](#): > > …There is no reason why a woman cannot be president, but I suspect there will not be a major party candidate that is female on the ballot for President in the next eight years. Why do you think that is? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/135 "2017-12-15T22:38:01Z")
The US is definitely ready for a female president. One almost won it. And then there’s this: > [@](#): > > As of 2017, a total of 22 states have never had a female governor. Those states are: Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nevada, New York, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia and Wisconsin. Nine of these states (Georgia, Idaho, Minnesota, Mississippi, New York, Ohio, South Dakota, Tennessee, and Utah) have never even seen a major party nominate a female candidate in a gubernatorial election, even though Minnesota has elected seven consecutive female lieutenant governors from 1982 to the present day. From Wikipedia’s [List of female governors in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_governors_in_the_United_States). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/136 "2017-12-15T22:41:40Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I don’t know. Could Obama have beaten Trump in 2016? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Rutherford\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Rutherford\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rutherford_B)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/137 "2017-12-15T22:42:45Z")
Elizabeth Warren…the first woman and first native American president ?..SARC ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/138 "2017-12-15T23:53:07Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > The US is definitely ready for a female president. One almost won it. > > And then there’s this: > > > [@](#): > > > > As of 2017, a total of 22 states have never had a female governor. Those states are: Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nevada, New York, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia and Wisconsin. Nine of these states (Georgia, Idaho, Minnesota, Mississippi, New York, Ohio, South Dakota, Tennessee, and Utah) have never even seen a major party nominate a female candidate in a gubernatorial election, even though Minnesota has elected seven consecutive female lieutenant governors from 1982 to the present day. > > From Wikipedia’s [List of female governors in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_governors_in_the_United_States). There’s also the Senators: > [@](#): > > Twenty-nine states have been represented by female senators, and 18 are currently represented. from Wikipedia’s [Women in the United States Senate: List of states represented by women](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_United_States_Senate#List_of_states_represented_by_women) Comparing the two lists, it looks like there aren’t a lot of states were a women has not won a top-tier race. ---
**Author:** ![Rutherford\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Rutherford\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rutherford_B)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/139 "2017-12-16T01:15:47Z")
I would have no problem voting for a REAL woman. I would never vote for a person who " feels" they are a woman or who surgically was made like a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/140 "2017-12-16T01:20:48Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Hillary Clinton was Lady Macbeth in the flesh, full of ambition scandals, and lies. > > There is no reason why a woman cannot be president, but I suspect there will not be a major party candidate that is female on the ballot for President in the next eight years. I don’t think Lady Macbeth would have won the popular vote, do you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371.md?page=8)