# The USA is not now and may never be ready for a woman President **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371 "2017-08-22T15:15:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/141 "2017-12-16T01:28:17Z")
> [@Rutherford\_B](#): > > I would have no problem voting for a REAL woman. > > I would never vote for a person who " feels" they are a woman or who surgically was made like a woman. why in the world is someone’s surgical history your business? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/142 "2017-12-16T01:35:37Z")
I don’t think it’s impossible to elect a female president, BUT I agree with the OP’s basic message that misogyny played a bigger role in Clinton’s loss than is generally acknowledged, and it’s not worth risking this in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/143 "2017-12-16T01:39:17Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > I don’t think Lady Macbeth would have won the popular vote, do you? Running against whom? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/144 "2017-12-16T01:58:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There’s also the Senators: > > from Wikipedia’s [Women in the United States Senate: List of states represented by women](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_United_States_Senate#List_of_states_represented_by_women) > > Comparing the two lists, it looks like there aren’t a lot of states were a women has not won a top-tier race. Yes. Mississippi is the only state that has never had a female governor or member of Congress. (I wish one would step up, but sadly, while we’ve got a few promising Democratic challengers for Congressional seats in 2018, they are all male.) ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/145 "2017-12-16T02:13:58Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > why in the world is someone’s surgical history your business? Really. Especially for political leadership purposes — their chromosomes and/or outward appearance are not primary concerns. I look for someone who can effectively lead, in the directions I think are best for the country (or state, county, city). ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/146 "2017-12-16T02:14:58Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > Yes. Mississippi is the only state that has never had a female governor or member of Congress. (I wish one would step up, but sadly, while we’ve got a few promising Democratic challengers for Congressional seats in 2018, they are all male.) Only MS, and no other state? Thanks for cross-checking the lists. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/147 "2017-12-16T02:34:23Z")
I’m finding more states than just Mississippi. ETA: only Governors and US Senators here. US Reps not included. Someone please check my work. From the above-referenced Wikipedia pages (_ **emphasis** _ mine): **US SENATORS** > [@](#): > > There have been 50 total women in the United States Senate since its establishment in 1789. States never represented by a female Senator: Arizona, _ **Colorado** _, Connecticut, Delaware, _ **Idaho** _, _ **Indiana** _, Kentucky, _ **Mississippi** _, Montana, New Jersey, New Mexico, Ohio, Oklahoma, _ **Pennsylvania** _, Rhode Island, South Carolina, _ **Tennessee** _, Utah, Vermont, _ **Virginia** _, Wyoming. **GOVERNORS** > [@](#): > > As of May 2017, forty-two women have served or are serving as the governor of a U.S. state (including one from the U.S. Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, two Mayors of the District of Columbia and two acting governors due to vacancies). > [@](#): > > As of 2017, a total of 22 states have never had a female governor. Those states are: Arkansas, California, _ **Colorado** _, Florida, Georgia, _ **Idaho** _, Illinois, _ **Indiana** _, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, _ **Mississippi** _, Missouri, Nevada, New York, North Dakota, _ **Pennsylvania** _, South Dakota, _ **Tennessee** _, _ **Virginia** _, West Virginia and Wisconsin. Nine of these states (Georgia, Idaho, Minnesota, Mississippi, New York, Ohio, South Dakota, Tennessee, and Utah) have never even seen a major party nominate a female candidate in a gubernatorial election, even though Minnesota has elected seven consecutive female lieutenant governors from 1982 to the present day. So the states are: Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Virginia. 7 states. Not bad, but we can do better. (Not we, per se, but voters in those states!) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/148 "2017-12-16T03:28:06Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > I don’t think it’s impossible to elect a female president, BUT I agree with the OP’s basic message that misogyny played a bigger role in Clinton’s loss than is generally acknowledged, and it’s not worth risking this in 2020. Thank you. That is EXACTLY my point. Even though Hillary actually did win the election, the wounds of all the mysogynistic baggage clinging to her will make it very hard for a woman to run and win any time soon. IMHO. The Dems have to reclaim the presidency in 2020, and it’s not worth the risk to run a woman, no matter how capable or qualified. Even though it’s probably correct that Obama could have beaten thump in 2016, Obama was a very rare candidate of any race or gender-- charismatic, well-educated, personable, charming, well-spoken, good-looking, healthy, with a gorgeous family, and without a whisper of any of the financial, family, sexual, legal, or any other scandals that plague just about everyone else in public life. It will be a while before anyone like him comes along again–maybe never. I don’t know if everyone has gotten my point, although my thread title says it: THE USA IS NOT READY… not that there are no qualified women–of course there are. THE USA IS NOT READY. I wish Joe Biden were 15 years younger (he probably does, too :rolleyes:). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/149 "2017-12-16T03:35:58Z")
I think you’re confusing “getting your point” with “agreeing with your point”. We get your point; it’s just that most of us don’t agree with it. Yes, it’s more difficult for woman than a man. But it’s a lot more difficult for black person than a white person. And yet we elected a black man, even though (by your logic) the country wasn’t ready for that to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/150 "2017-12-16T05:34:16Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I don’t think the USA will ever be ready for a woman President. I’m even more convinced that U.S. voters will never elect a black President. Like, c’mon, there’s too much visceral racism out there. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/151 "2017-12-16T05:46:57Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Even though Hillary actually did win the election Is this the “She won the popular vote, therefore she won the election” thing still? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/152 "2017-12-16T13:36:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think you’re confusing “getting your point” with “agreeing with your point”. We get your point; it’s just that most of us don’t agree with it. I hope you’re right, because I want to be wrong. > [@](#): > > Yes, it’s more difficult for woman than a man. But it’s a lot more difficult for black person than a white person. And yet we elected a black man, even though (by your logic) the country wasn’t ready for that to happen. I’ll thank you not extrapolate my logic. I believe the deep-seated antipathy toward women is more insidious and widespread than the resistance to a black MAN in office. Obama was not a typical candidate, black or white. He wasn’t your run-of-the-mill regular Joe like most of the doofuses in public life. He was a star, a superstar, even. Yeah, he wasn’t good at the give-and-take and backroom haggling that is all successful politics. He expected his opposition to play fair, but he encountered racial hatred (I’m lookin’ at you, Mitch McConnell). Obama was black. But he was a MAN, so not a candidate for any of those criticisms typically hurled at successful women. Like I said,\* I’d love to be proven wrong.\* I’d love for a strong, smart, charismatic woman to rise up from the ranks, a woman who raised her children, and still managed a successful career AND a successful marriage. Who can write a book or a speech and still bake killer chocolate chip cookies. Who will not be accused of being shrill, uppity, unfeminine, a ball-buster, subject to hormonal fluctuations that make her unstable. Who will not be criticized for being too concerned with fashion (She wears expensive designer dresses!) or too frumpy (She always wears pants–when are we going to see her in a dress!)). Who won’t be seen as too sexy (or too sexless). And blahblahblah endlessly with pointed barbs that men are not subject to. Hillary hit all of those hot buttons. Any woman prominent in public life is going to hit a lot of them. Men are not scored on any of them. > [@Velocity](#): > > Is this the “She won the popular vote, therefore she won the election” thing still? Facts don’t just go away because you don’t like them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/153 "2017-12-16T16:28:48Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > II’ll thank you not extrapolate my logic. Just to be clear, is it your contention that “extrapolating a poster’s logic” is not part of the debate process? > [@](#): > > I believe the deep-seated antipathy toward women is more insidious and widespread than the resistance to a black MAN in office. There have been 39 women elected as governors in the US. There have been 4 black governors elected. The facts don’t seem to support your belief. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/154 "2017-12-16T16:47:11Z")
And, to be rigorously fair, we should note that about 50% of the folks in the US are women, while only about 12% are black. So, if we adjust the numbers accordingly, that would put an adjusted number of black governs at 17 (rounding up). Still, less than half the number of women governors. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/155 "2017-12-16T17:21:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Just to be clear, is it your contention that “extrapolating a poster’s logic” is not part of the debate process? Beside the point. Not interested in discussing your take on the rules of debate. I believe the obstacles to electing a woman president are not only vastly different from, but vastly greater than the obstacles to electing a black man president. Do you think they are identical and interchangeable? > [@](#): > > There have been 39 women elected as governors in the US. There have been 4 black governors elected. The facts don’t seem to support your belief. Easy. Governor =/= President Convince me of your point. Please. Make me believe. I want to. ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/156 "2017-12-16T17:24:12Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Facts don’t just go away because you don’t like them. Indeed. So please stop ignoring the fact that the summation of all states’ popular votes is completely and totally irrelevant to any discussion of presidential elections, even if you don’t like that fact. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/157 "2017-12-16T17:29:05Z")
> [@akennett](#): > > Indeed. So please stop ignoring the fact that the summation of all states’ popular votes is completely and totally irrelevant to any discussion of presidential elections, even if you don’t like that fact. It’s one hundred percent relevant when talking about popular choice and support. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/158 "2017-12-16T17:50:26Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > It’s one hundred percent relevant when talking about popular choice and support. But if your contention is that the USA (as a whole) is not ready for a woman president, that would undercut your argument. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/159 "2017-12-16T17:56:17Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Beside the point. Not interested in discussing your take on the rules of debate. I was asking what your take was. You’re the one who asked me not to extrapolate your logic. If you don’t want to discuss it, you shouldn’t bring it up. > [@](#): > > I believe the obstacles to electing a woman president are not only vastly different from, but vastly greater than the obstacles to electing a black man president. Do you think they are identical and interchangeable? > > Easy. Governor =/= President > > Convince me of your point. Please. Make me believe. I want to. I don’t have to convince anyone. You are the one making an assertion, so you must convince us. So far all we have seen is that you have a certain belief or feeling. Data about other elections, Senator and governors especially, are most certainly relevant. As is data about the number of votes cast. Can you summarize the data that you have presented again? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371/160 "2017-12-16T17:56:31Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Beside the point. Not interested in discussing your take on the rules of debate. > > I believe the obstacles to electing a woman president are not only vastly different from, but vastly greater than the obstacles to electing a black man president. Do you think they are identical and interchangeable? > > Easy. Governor =/= President > > Convince me of your point. Please. Make me believe. I want to. Frankly, I don’t see how you, personally, can be convinced until we do elect a woman president. But I’m convinced it’s possible. Many people who voted for a woman for governor would have no qualms about voting for the same person for president. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-is-not-now-and-may-never-be-ready-for-a-woman-president/794371.md?page=9)