# The USA now has homeless (tented) communities outside 55 cities? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 13, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701 "2012-02-13T12:48:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/1 "2012-02-13T12:48:03Z")
If you can watch past 2mins 40 secs you’re stronger than me: > **[BBC News - Panorama - America's homeless resort to tent cities](http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_9694000/9694094.stm)** > > Panorama's Hilary Andersson meets some of America's most desperate families and finds that some are now being sent to live in tented encampments as a last resort. I don’t understand how a population can become so cowered as to not revolt against the obscenity of poverty and inequality in society. Based on the above, it’s not even civilisation I, as a European, can recognise. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/2 "2012-02-13T13:09:32Z")
From your article - > [@](#): > > There are an estimated 5,000 people living in the dozens of camps that have sprung up across America. 5,000 out of 300 million is not exactly catastrophic. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Ayebaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darth_ayebaw/32/9870_2.png) [@Darth\_Ayebaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Ayebaw)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/3 "2012-02-13T13:18:15Z")
Then why can’t I find comparable sites in the EU with a population of 500m? Maybe my Google-fu is just weak, but all I’m finding are protests and soccer matches. I’m not saying there’s not homeless in Europe, but you also have to consider there’s far more homeless in the US than just in tent cities. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/4 "2012-02-13T13:54:06Z")
> [@Darth\_Ayebaw](#): > > Then why can’t I find comparable sites in the EU with a population of 500m? Maybe my Google-fu is just weak, but all I’m finding are protests and soccer matches. I’m not saying there’s not homeless in Europe, but you also have to consider there’s far more homeless in the US than just in tent cities. One reason is that there is relatively less data on homelessness in the EU as in the USA. There is [some](http://www.fahcsia.gov.au/sa/housing/pubs/homelessness/saap_er_publications/recent_international_national/Pages/appendix1.aspx) (PDF), but much of it is obscured by differing definitions of homelessness. This [cite](http://broadway.jamkit.com/CHAIN/Reports/main_content/S2H_2009-10_bulletin.pdf) claims there are some 3600 people sleeping rough in London alone. That’s more than half of those claimed for these tent cities in America, and doesn’t include the rest of the EU. Sure, homelessness sucks, but let’s not get carried away here. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/5 "2012-02-13T15:26:53Z")
Can’t watch the video where I am right now, but the US does have shelters for homeless people, and many of them prefer not to take advantage of them. Not saying I know there is a spot for every single homeless person, but how do we know how many of the people in these tent cities prefer that over a shelter? Also, does anyone know if the regulations for such encampments are looser or tighter in Europe, because that would make a difference, too? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Ayebaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darth_ayebaw/32/9870_2.png) [@Darth\_Ayebaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Ayebaw)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/6 "2012-02-13T15:31:53Z")
Well if you did read/watch, you’ll find that homeless shelters are referring people to the tent cities because they’re already full. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/7 "2012-02-13T15:36:00Z")
About the video: Following the 2:35 mark I notice one kid seems to be saying “My mom eats grass.” I think she had trouble with pronunciation, pronouncing it “grats” and the interviewer heard it as “My mom eats rats.” The interviewer says “Your mom eats rats?” and the kid gets a puzzled look and starts to shake her head no, but the image of mom chowing down on rats is just too sensational for the interviewer to resist and she just plows right through. (There is a suspicious edit at the moment the kid starts to shake her head “no”.) I’m guessing that maybe the mom had gathered some [dandelion greens](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taraxacum#Culinary_use) (which is a traditional hard-times food) or possibly some [poke salad](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poke_salet#Uses). ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/8 "2012-02-13T15:41:47Z")
I don’t think this is a new thing. When I was in St. Petersburg (FL) there was something of a to-do about the city closing down a tent city that had something like 100 people in it. This was in ~2006, when the economy was doing relatively well. As in that case, I suspect the reason we don’t see more of them isn’t so much lack of homeless people as the fact that semi-permenant tent cities attract complaints from locals which eventually leads to towns and cities closing them down. The end result being homeless people tend to move their sleeping locations around and not congregate. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/9 "2012-02-13T15:46:52Z")
OK, I went to the link (I thought it was only video, and can’t have that where I am right now) and saw this: > [@](#): > > The largest camp, Pinella’s Hope in central Florida - a region better known for the glamour of Disneyworld - is made up of neat rows of tents spread out across a 13-acre plot. > > The Catholic charity that runs it has made laundry available, as well as computers and phones. Not saying that’s ideal, but sounds about as good as a shelter, if you’re living in FL. And this is the largest camp. Looks like sensationalist “OMG, look how bad America is” press from overseas. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/10 "2012-02-13T15:50:10Z")
I’ve no doubt that we have more people living in tents or on the streets than we did before the housing collapse. The irony is that this is happening while at the same time (also because of the housing collapse) we have a [record number of vacant homes](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-vacant-housing-hits-record-19-million-2010-04-26). (Something like 1 in 9 homes are vacant.) ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/11 "2012-02-13T15:54:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not saying that’s ideal, but sounds about as good as a shelter, if you’re living in FL. And this is the largest camp. Looks like sensationalist “OMG, look how bad America is” press from overseas. Beyond sensationalist, I think they’re also not researched very well. I can’t find a “Pinella’s Hope” tent city in central FL, but there’s a “Pinellas Hope” tent city in Pinellas (which isn’t in what is usually called Central Florida and is also a pretty good distance from Disney World). I actually think Pinellas Hope is the tent city that was opened to deal with the people who were kicked out of the one I mentioned in my earlier post. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/12 "2012-02-13T15:56:29Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > I’ve no doubt that we have more people living in tents or on the streets than we did before the housing collapse. > > The irony is that this is happening while at the same time (also because of the housing collapse) we have a [record number of vacant homes](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-vacant-housing-hits-record-19-million-2010-04-26). (Something like 1 in 9 homes are vacant.) If you’re getting that 1 in 9 number from this: > [@](#): > > The vacancy rate for rentable units fell to 10.6% from 10.7% in the fourth quarter. You’re misreading it. Not all homes are “rentable”. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/13 "2012-02-13T16:00:01Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t understand how a population can become so cowered as to not revolt against the obscenity of poverty and inequality in society. Because relatively speaking it’s a pretty minor problem. Note, it’s not a minor problem if YOU (the generic ‘you’) happen to be having it, but relative to society as a whole it’s pretty small. From memory, the number of homeless in the US is below a million people, which is less than 1% of the population. You aren’t going to get large scale revolts for a situation that directly effects less than 1% of the population, especially since some effort is made to alleviate situation for those who are willing to use them (not every homeless person IS willing to avail themselves to what’s out there, for various reasons). If the number of homeless people in the US rises to, say 30 million (a touch less than 10%) THEN you might see folks start to consider ‘revolt’, especially if society doesn’t continue to do anything at all to alleviate the impact on those suffering the issue. > [@](#): > > Based on the above, it’s not even civilisation I, as a European, can recognise. Ah, well, your cocks are bigger too from what I understand. It’s tough for you guys to be so superior, but someone has to be, no? 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/14 "2012-02-13T16:04:47Z")
The 1 in 9 figure I was remembering is an old number, [from 2009](http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2009-02-12-vacancy12_N.htm), but I doubt it’s improved much if at all. In Florida, [the number was as high as 20%](http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/18/real_estate/florida_vacant_homes/index.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/15 "2012-02-13T18:07:15Z")
> [@Darth\_Ayebaw](#): > > Then why can’t I find comparable sites in the EU with a population of 500m? Maybe my Google-fu is just weak, but all I’m finding are protests and soccer matches. I’m not saying there’s not homeless in Europe, but you also have to consider there’s far more homeless in the US than just in tent cities. [Here](http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/article/45501-french-shower) are 1000 immigrants living in squalor in Calais. They ended up [sleeping rough](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2009/sep/24/refugees-france) after French police closed the camp. [Here](http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=18663) is Italy destroying Roma camps and leaving 1000 homeless. Note that these Roma had been living in camps on the outskirts of Rome for up to [40 years](http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,MRGI,,ITA,,4e16d36d73,0.html). [Here](http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/aug/12/homeless-poles-rough-sleepers) are homeless Poles in London reportedly barbecuing rats and drinking hand sanitizer, some in small camps. [Here](http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23914793-the-homeless-who-slide-down-rubbish-chute-to-their-beds.do) are 50 men sleeping in the garbage rooms of housing estates in London. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/16 "2012-02-13T19:02:24Z")
The Fu is strong with this one. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/17 "2012-02-13T19:03:46Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > [Here](http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/article/45501-french-shower) are 1000 immigrants living in squalor in Calais. They ended up [sleeping rough](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2009/sep/24/refugees-france) after French police closed the camp. > > [Here](http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=18663) is Italy destroying Roma camps and leaving 1000 homeless. Note that these Roma had been living in camps on the outskirts of Rome for up to [40 years](http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,MRGI,,ITA,,4e16d36d73,0.html). > > [Here](http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/aug/12/homeless-poles-rough-sleepers) are homeless Poles in London reportedly barbecuing rats and drinking hand sanitizer, some in small camps. > > [Here](http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23914793-the-homeless-who-slide-down-rubbish-chute-to-their-beds.do) are 50 men sleeping in the garbage rooms of housing estates in London. Roma are different - they’re a traditional travelling community. The others are bad, but does the US really not have people like that _as well as_ people living in Hoovervilles? They’re not a good example unless you reckon that the only homeless people in the US are those in the tented cities. However, I would have thought there’s one simple reason Europe doesn’t have so many tented cities - less space, especially near cities. Tented cities are far more feasible in places like Florida than Norway (for weather reasons too) or Spain. So it’s not _necessarily_ a sign that the US is oh-so-terrible. Aren’t there provisions for homeless families, though? In the UK, at least, the govt is obliged to provide some sort of housing for certain groups of people, including families with children under 18. The housing is often not very good, but it’d be better than a tent. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/18 "2012-02-13T20:05:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can’t watch the video where I am right now, but the US does have shelters for homeless people, and many of them prefer not to take advantage of them. Not saying I know there is a spot for every single homeless person, but how do we know how many of the people in these tent cities prefer that over a shelter? Some homeless don’t even if their lives are threatened. For example in the case of the serial killer who murdered homeless men in the OC this winter, at least one homeless man felt he was being stalked but declined to go to a shelter or seek police protection. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/19 "2012-02-13T20:22:24Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > I don’t understand how a population can become so cowered as to not revolt against the obscenity of poverty and inequality in society. [http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,418527,00.html](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,418527,00.html) According to the European Federation of National Organizations Working with the Homeless, in 2003, there were at least 3,000,000 people in western Europe who were homeless. Of those homeless, less than 10% are “sleeping rough.” Just for fun, let’s say it’s 150,000 people who are sleeping rough. Western Europe has a homeless problem that is on par with the United States. > [@](#): > > Based on the above, it’s not even civilisation I, as a European, can recognise. Open your eyes and look around your neck of the woods. I think you’ll recognize it just fine. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/20 "2012-02-13T20:39:52Z")
[QUOTE=Odesio] Open your eyes and look around your neck of the woods. I think you’ll recognize it just fine. [/QUOTE] You just don’t get it, Odesio. We aren’t civilized by European measurements because, for one thing, we use a ‘z’ when we spell civilization…and this is but one thing that makes us barbarians to our more cultured cousins across the pond. 😉 As noted, their average dick size is also larger and has more girth than us Americans, plus their women are more attractive (and their animals are less scared), their teeth are generally better, etc etc. -XT [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701.md?page=2)