# The USA now has homeless (tented) communities outside 55 cities? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 13, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701 "2012-02-13T12:48:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/41 "2012-02-14T02:45:54Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > There is a type of housing subsidy called “Section 8” which helps those on low-incomes with their rent. In my area, the waiting list to obtain a section 8 voucher is _ten years long_. That’s the _waiting list_. It is also closed - meaning if you aren’t on the waiting list already _you can’t get on it_. > > There are shelters that take entire families, but not many, and there are more families than shelters for them. Some women’s shelters will take the children as well as the women… but they might not allow adult men. > > The provisions for ANY type of homeless in the US are limited, and overflowing. That’s an expensive program. You could buy a house outright for what they subsidize in rent over 10 years. Often wondered if they shouldn’t have the recipients pay more so the money could be spread out more. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/42 "2012-02-14T08:03:38Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Speaking as someone who has spent a lot of time in London, it’s difficult to convey the number of homeless you can encounter in any given day, especially at night. At times it’s very easy to be walking down a street that looks straight out of a Dorothea Lange photograph - minus the dust clouds. And these aren’t polite Mary Poppinsish elegant rogues in top hats, these are largely incredibly filthy, drunk, high, and/or insane people who will come right up to you and block your way until you give them money, stalk you through the Tube, follow you into shops, and come up to your table while you’re eating and stick their hands towards your food - until you (well, actually, until your girlfriend) yells at them to “sod off!” Disengenous much? There are no families, no rat-eating children, the people on the streets are mostly economic migrants from eastern Europe interspersed with a few borderline mentaslly unwell who chose this life, and occasional adventurous teenagers. There is adequate provision for homeless single people, and there is a statutory duty to house families. These are facts, speaking as a non-hysteric. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/43 "2012-02-14T08:49:59Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Disengenous much? > > There are no families, no rat-eating children, the people on the streets are mostly economic migrants from eastern Europe interspersed with a few borderline mentaslly unwell who chose this life, and occasional adventurous teenagers. > > There is adequate provision for homeless single people, and there is a statutory duty to house families. These are facts, speaking as a non-hysteric. So would it be ok if the homeless people in the United States were economic migrants from Latin America? I’m not trying to be mean to homeless people, I understand some people just get really unlucky, but pretty much every homeless person I’ve ever met in America was either very intoxicated or rather crazy. I’m giving the rat eating story a big :dubious: [http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/programs/access/foodassistance.shtml](http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/programs/access/foodassistance.shtml) [http://www.michigan.gov/dhs/0,1607,7-124-5453\_5527-21832--,00.html](http://www.michigan.gov/dhs/0,1607,7-124-5453_5527-21832--,00.html) Believe it or not, the barbaric US government does provide free food to poor people. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/44 "2012-02-14T09:01:15Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Roma are different - they’re a traditional travelling community. I’m not sure I follow the logic on this one. The link provided said the Roma had been living there for 40 years before they were driven out. It’s ok that the Roma are poor because they’ve been poor for a long time? How is that different than saying that it’s ok that black Americans are poor because they’ve been poor a long time? There are a variety of government services availible to the poor in the United States. Including forms of assistance with food, health care, and housing. Generally speaking, these services are not as extensive as those that Western European governments provide. There are, of course, also a wide variety of private charities. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/45 "2012-02-14T09:39:10Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > I’m not trying to be mean to homeless people, I understand some people just get really unlucky, but pretty much every homeless person I’ve ever met in America was either very intoxicated or rather crazy. You mean every homeless person that you _knew_ was homeless - if a homeless person was sober, clean, and neatly dressed how on earth would you know that they were homeless? Three of my co-workers are currently living in shelters. If no one told you that, you’d never know they were homeless. They aren’t drunk, they aren’t crazy (well, no more than the average person), they have good personal hygiene, they show up to work on time… they’re rather ordinary, in fact, which is why no one imagines they’re homeless. I’m quite sure during the three months one of my sisters was homeless you wouldn’t have guess that about her, either. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/46 "2012-02-14T10:03:36Z")
If you’re homeless in Florida, sleeping in a tent may seem like a better option than a car (cramped) or a shelter (dangerous). If you’re homeless pretty much anywhere in the UK I can’t see sleeping in a tent ever being a good idea - you’d freeze and die in winter, wouldn’t you? And I do mean that literally. I’m sure I’ve heard reports of the death rates of pensioners in unheated flats going way up in the winter. Maybe that’s why there are more homeless in tents in the US? I’m pretty sure not many of them would be in New England… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/47 "2012-02-14T14:35:17Z")
I’m going with rant since the OP has not returned to defend his thesis. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/48 "2012-02-14T14:48:46Z")
To be fair, post #42 is from the OP. On the other hand, I don’t see cites for any of the claims made there, so maybe “rant” is accurate. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/49 "2012-02-14T18:41:56Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Disengenous much? Making a direct personal insult in Great Debates much? > [@](#): > > There are no families, None, whatsoever, living homeless? Not a one? Well, your snide, insulting hand-waving has convinced me! > [@](#): > > There is adequate provision for homeless single people, and there is a statutory duty to house families. These are facts, speaking as a non-hysteric. I don’t give a rat’s ass about that; I never claimed there weren’t options, just as there are differing options in much of the US. I provided a citation as to the number living homeless in London, and you..well, you provided an insult. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/50 "2012-02-14T19:32:24Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Based on the above, it’s not even civilisation I, as a European, can recognise. Probably because there are no austerity riots. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/51 "2012-02-14T19:44:35Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Probably because there are no austerity riots. Come on. They go on massive car burning rampages\* sometimes, too, over unemployment in poor neighborhoods, so it’s not like it’s all austerity riots 24/7. \*Estimated 9,000 cars burned in 2005 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/52 "2012-02-14T19:48:39Z")
Let’s be fair - Americans do that too, only after the playoffs. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/53 "2012-02-14T19:59:18Z")
Heck, the reason why the Occupy folks aren’t exactly welcome in some US cities are due to riots and destruction. Granted, we aren’t in the same league as our European cousins…NO ONE riots like a European with a bit in his or her mouth!!..but it still happens here. Sadly, we just aren’t as civilized, so our riots are pretty ho-hum, by and large. ☹ -XT ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/54 "2012-02-14T20:59:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Let’s be fair - Americans do that too, only after the playoffs. And Canadians, let’s not forget Vancouver. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/55 "2012-02-14T21:32:33Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > The others are bad, but does the US really not have people like that _as well as_ people living in Hoovervilles? They’re not a good example unless you reckon that the only homeless people in the US are those in the tented cities. According to [this](http://www.laalmanac.com/social/so14.htm), approximately 254K residents of Los Angeles County experienced homelessness in the last year; this translates to about 2.5% of the population. Morally, any homelessness is indefensible, but on the other hand, keep in mind that the problem is particularly concentrated in warmer regions of the country as might be expected. Also, remember that this doesn’t mean that those 254K people remained homeless for an entire year, as suggested by [this](http://tkoh.org/TKOH_Foundation/facts_on_homelessness.htm), which asserts a “nightly” rate that is far lower, well under 1%. I’ll say it again: it’s morally reprehensible and a stain on our conscience. But even so it’s not as if our cities are ringed by Grapes-Of-Wrath style Hoovervilles. There aren’t enough people sleeping rough at any given point in time for that to happen. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/56 "2012-02-14T22:30:19Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > According to [this](http://www.laalmanac.com/social/so14.htm), approximately 254K residents of Los Angeles County experienced homelessness in the last year; this translates to about 2.5% of the population. Morally, any homelessness is indefensible, but on the other hand, keep in mind that the problem is particularly concentrated in warmer regions of the country as might be expected. Also, remember that this doesn’t mean that those 254K people remained homeless for an entire year, as suggested by [this](http://tkoh.org/TKOH_Foundation/facts_on_homelessness.htm), which asserts a “nightly” rate that is far lower, well under 1%. I’ll say it again: it’s morally reprehensible and a stain on our conscience. But even so it’s not as if our cities are ringed by Grapes-Of-Wrath style Hoovervilles. There aren’t enough people sleeping rough at any given point in time for that to happen. Voluntarily homelessness is 100% defensible, people have every right to be homeless if they choose. Unfortunately that is a tiny majority of the homeless population but please do not advocate a system where involuntary commitment is common. The homeless do not surrender their rights purely because they are homeless. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/57 "2012-02-14T22:39:58Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > You mean every homeless person that you _knew_ was homeless Correct. I only mentioned it because the OP tried to hand waive away homelessness problems in Western Europe because apparently if your homeless people are immigrants, mentally ill, or members of an ethnic minority that suffered from centuries of exclusion from mainstream society, they don’t count. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/58 "2012-02-16T04:25:48Z")
Too many posts for me to respond to. I did mean for my question about families to be about different states rather than ‘The States’ (hence the lack of the capital letter), but it sounds like provision is too varied for there to be a good answer. At least not in this thread. > [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > I’m not sure I follow the logic on this one. The link provided said the Roma had been living there for 40 years before they were driven out. It’s ok that the Roma are poor because they’ve been poor for a long time? How is that different than saying that it’s ok that black Americans are poor because they’ve been poor a long time? > There are a variety of government services availible to the poor in the United States. Including forms of assistance with food, health care, and housing. Generally speaking, these services are not as extensive as those that Western European governments provide. There are, of course, also a wide variety of private charities. Them being driven out was a racist act that was widely condemned at the time. Them living in camps _is_ different because they’re Roma - they’re a travelling community. There had been a Roma camp there for forty years, but it wouldn’t all be the same people all the time. There are a lot of settled Roma now, and probably would be more if the govts allowed them to settle in their own way, but it doesn’t make sense to count a traditionally nomadic community as ‘homeless’ because they’re living in a traditional setting (or an updated version of it, like their Roma camp before they got chucked out). > [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Making a direct personal insult in Great Debates much? > None, whatsoever, living homeless? Not a one? Well, your snide, insulting hand-waving has convinced me! > I don’t give a rat’s ass about that; I never claimed there weren’t options, just as there are differing options in much of the US. > > I provided a citation as to the number living homeless in London, and you..well, you provided an insult. The homeless families in the UK, at least, are provided with temporary homes while waiting for permanent homes - the worst being B&Bs (cheap hotels) or special homeless hostels where they have their own rooms. I lived in one such for about six months as a youth after a couple of months’ rough sleeping. People living in these temporary homes still count towards homeless statistics. The only families you’ll find living in movable caravans/trailers are travellers there by choice. ---
**Author:** ![aaaa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@aaaa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aaaa)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/59 "2012-02-17T04:42:17Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > If you can watch past 2mins 40 secs you’re stronger than me: > > [BBC News - Panorama - America's homeless resort to tent cities](http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_9694000/9694094.stm) > > I don’t understand how a population can become so cowered as to not revolt against the obscenity of poverty and inequality in society. > > Based on the above, it’s not even civilisation I, as a European, can recognise. Obscenity of poverty and inequality in society? Who is there to revolt against? A poor person in the United States is better off than a poor person in nearly any other country in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701/60 "2012-02-17T12:10:10Z")
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I keep hearing that: “Poor in America is better than poor anywhere else”. Really? In Europe the poor can at least get needed medical care. Of course, there’s poor and then there is POOR. If you’re living in a tent or storm drain I don’t think you can excuse it as being not so bad as somewhere else. I mean, I’m poor, but I have a roof over my head, a working vehicle so I can get to work, and a decent diet. It’s not wonderful, but I can’t say I’m suffering either. Then there people living in tents or cardboard boxes with no means to cook a warm meal in the middle of winter - that sucks no matter what country you live in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-now-has-homeless-tented-communities-outside-55-cities/612701.md?page=4)