# The USA should stop policing the world **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 15, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738 "2015-02-15T19:15:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/81 "2015-02-17T23:18:21Z")
[Cool topical toons.](http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026237162) ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/82 "2015-02-17T23:18:28Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Not to derail this, **Smapti** , but you’re one of the more confusing posters on the SDMB… One moment you seem more left-wing than the leftest of left-wingers; the next you seem more right-wing than the rightest of right-wingers. > Not criticizing; just saying. If we are to reject “gender binary” distinctions, we should do the same with politics. While I generally consider myself centre-left, for instance, I’m also fairly hawkish and against legalized abortion. I do think American allies can do more to take up more of the burden in enforcing some semblance of a world order and steps being taken in this direction by countries such as Japan are quite promising. Nonetheless, inertia and economies of scale mean that it is more efficient for the United States to remain the premier world policeman as opposed to any other country. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/83 "2015-02-18T08:21:56Z")
> [@XT](#): > > ‘Imagine’ being the operative word, since this is pure hand wringing fantasy. First off, Iraq is ASKING us to send some ground troops, and we are balking at sending more than token training cadre (and probably some special ops guys for targeting or intel). We aren’t going to be invading anyone, certainly not Syria. It wouldn’t have to be America troops. The ground force could be the coalition allies, including the Iraq army, while America provides air support. The other members seem unwilling or unable to do this. ISIS can’t be destroyed from the air. Which means…stale mate. Might be time to change the maps. Iraq, Kurdistan, and the Islamic State. > [@](#): > > Thus far, ISIS/ISIL HAS come out into the open…it’s the only way they can take and keep ground. You can’t do that melting into the local population, and aside from certain areas they basically can’t do that anyway, since hacking off the heads of the men folk and raping your way across a country usually has a negative effect on the willingness of the locals to allow you to blend…unless you mean that in the literal Chinese sense of the word ‘blend’, of course. 😛 Syria is going to have to deal with itself and it’s own melt down in progress. I don’t see why they couldn’t melt away in the event of a coalition invasion and engage in the usual IED routine. Most of them live there, after all. As for local retaliation helping the invaders, that’s possible. But I’ve noticed that Westerners tend to underestimate local support for extreme opposition groups, so I wouldn’t bet on it, personally. Maybe we’ll find out someday. Do you disagree that any ground force would have to occupy ISIS territory for several years? Maybe militarize the border with Syria, if that won’t be addressed. > [@XT](#): > > Obviously the real answer is to just allow a bunch of dooms day cult fanatics to rape, murder and pillage their way across a region that has vital strategic resources used by the world because the US shouldn’t bomb anyone! ISIS is selling the oil. It’s all gravy. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Personally, I bet that quite a few critics of the current policy will cluck in disgust how the U.S. didn’t do enough to stop wanton violence in Sudan and Rwanda, and would be perfectly happy to complain again how the US doesn’t value poor people’s lives enough were the U.S. to do nothing about the slaughter in Syria and Iraq. Just a bunch of liberal blame America firsters, eh? It’s possible. I’d only ever use Rwanda and Sudan as examples of humanitarian hypocrisy on the part of the West, though that sort of rhetoric was more useful in the Bush years. There were certainly plenty of liberals who wanted to go in guns blazing and save the poor benighted Africans (what a clusterfuck that would’ve been), just like there are plenty of libs now who want to blow ISIS sky high and save all the Muslim women from the religious patriarchy. Or the bleeding hearts who wanted to intervene in Burma a couple years ago. Or Myanmar…whatever. > [@](#): > > **Marshmallow** - Here’s what puzzles me about your view that the U.S. is doing too much. I don’t think I’ve said that. I’ve mostly been snarking on hawk rhetoric and being cynical about the coalition and how terrible America is at anti-guerrilla campaigns. If you want to destroy ISIS, sure, America could be doing a lot more. If you want a stable Iraq then America should’ve never left in the first place. America shouldn’t have given up on those enduring bases. McCain was correct. You’re right tho, I wouldn’t mind pulling out completely, instead of Obama and the next POTUS steadily increasing the numbers of “advisers.” Hey, it’s not like we’d end up empty handed. _American Sniper_ made 400 million box office. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/84 "2015-02-18T14:02:01Z")
[QUOTE=marshmallow] It wouldn’t have to be America troops. The ground force could be the coalition allies, including the Iraq army, while America provides air support. The other members seem unwilling or unable to do this. ISIS can’t be destroyed from the air. Which means…stale mate. [/QUOTE] Except that no one wants to invade Syria and open up that can of worms. As for ground forces fighting in Iraq, there are several groups who are currently fighting that part of the war (this really is a war in the more traditional sense). The Iraqis would like us to send in our own ground troops, but I don’t think that we are going to see a lot of direct US boots on the ground fighting. ISIS can’t be completed destroyed from the air, no, but when they decided to attempt to fight by capturing territory and in set piece battles they came out into the open and have been hammered for it. And they will have to continue to operate that way if they hope to achieve their tactical and strategic goals, which makes them very vulnerable to ALLIED air attacks. > [@](#): > > Might be time to change the maps. Iraq, Kurdistan, and the Islamic State. I think we will see a more autonomous Kurdistan (which was already pretty autonomous before all of this) in Northern Iraq come out of all of this, but I doubt any maps will actually be changed in the end. > [@](#): > > I don’t see why they couldn’t melt away in the event of a coalition invasion and engage in the usual IED routine. Most of them live there, after all. As for local retaliation helping the invaders, that’s possible. But I’ve noticed that Westerners tend to underestimate local support for extreme opposition groups, so I wouldn’t bet on it, personally. Maybe we’ll find out someday. They can’t really do that in the territory they have conquered, especially the territory they were particularly brutal in. To ‘melt away’ you need to go to ground in the indigenous population, and so need their tacit support not only to avoid being ratted out but so the locals don’t give you to their women for knife practice. Even in areas where they have the good will of the locals I doubt they would go to ground, since that would be admitting defeat…the whole point of all of this from their perspective is to take and hold key regions and build a state in anticipation of dooms day and the final battle/final days of man (sort of like Revelations from what I understand). You can’t do that hiding in the shadows and blowing up a few troops with IEDs, especially if you expect Islam and the Islamic State to win the final battle and create post apocalyptic Muslim world, which is what they want. I read an article the other day on CNN where they were talking about this stuff and they were making the case that ISIS/ISIL is not a rational actor here, and they are doing stuff for religious reasons that make no kind of tactical or strategic sense, but only make sense when you look at their world view and what they are trying to achieve through the filter of their religious beliefs. > [@](#): > > Do you disagree that any ground force would have to occupy ISIS territory for several years? Maybe militarize the border with Syria, if that won’t be addressed. Yes, because I think that when/if ISIS is decisively defeated in the field they will basically cease to exist as a coherent force. Part of their mystique at this point comes from what they have achieved…produced and supported a real military force able to take and hold territory and then move forward to do it again. It’s really a remarkable achievement for a group like this from a military perspective, even if their methods and tactics are brutal and repugnant, as are their end goals. But once they are defeated in the field their support, except for a hard core, are going to pretty much evaporate, since it was that winning that was filling the ranks. Also, they are going to be hard pressed to keep even an insurgent fighting force going at that point. Regardless, it will be defeat for them in their own eyes as well as the eyes of potential future supporters and recruits. > [@](#): > > ISIS is selling the oil. It’s all gravy. I don’t think so, though I know you were injecting a humorous note into things. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/85 "2015-02-18T16:54:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Not to derail this, **Smapti** , but you’re one of the more confusing posters on the SDMB… One moment you seem more left-wing than the leftest of left-wingers; the next you seem more right-wing than the rightest of right-wingers. According to the Political Compass quiz, I am strongly liberal and strongly authoritarian. I think that confuses people because a lot of liberals conflate liberalism with distrust of “The Man” and authority figures in general. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/86 "2015-02-18T18:18:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > According to the Political Compass quiz, I am strongly liberal and strongly authoritarian. I think that confuses people because a lot of liberals conflate liberalism with distrust of “The Man” and authority figures in general. That makes sense, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![ManagerSquad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@ManagerSquad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManagerSquad)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/87 "2015-02-19T20:58:02Z")
Have we all forgotten the fact that many of the middle-eastern countries are taught growing up to hate the United States… With that being said if the US sits back and does nothing to stop/resist growth in ISIS then they will grow bigger to eventually give the US a run for our money. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/88 "2015-02-19T21:09:36Z")
That’s rediculous. ISIL is not going to challenge the U.S. in any meaningful way no matter what happens in the next 1,000 years. The only thing at stake here is whether the U.S. will aid friendly countries like Jordan, semi-friendly countries like Iraq, and many tens of thousands of innocent civilians who stand to be murdered, tortured, or otherwise grievously mistreated by ISIL. ---
**Author:** ![ManagerSquad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@ManagerSquad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManagerSquad)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/89 "2015-02-20T13:21:22Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] (That’s rediculous. ISIL is not going to challenge the U.S. in any meaningful way no matter what happens in the next 1,000 years.) Its not completely ridiculous, because if the US sits back and does nothing to aid the countries in the middle east, ISIS will take over the middle east including all of the oil and trade, thus leaving them with all of the money enabling them to create the super army they so desire… the other option is that they will take the middle east and only that, but we saw how that worked out in WWI and WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/90 "2015-02-20T14:03:22Z")
It is rediculous that ISIL has any hope of taking over the Middle East. Ever. The real world isn’t like a game of Risk in which a country belongs to you if you move your armies into it. To put it another way, the U.S. moved roughly 200,000 troops into Iraq and it was a failure. ISIL consists of what, maybe 30,000 people total? And you think they are going to take over the Arabian Peninsula? The best I can figure is that you think war is like a game of Risk (see above), or you seem to think that Muslims are a unified bloc that is just waiting to coalesce to take in the U.S. That idea is wrong, too, just like how people in the Cold War thought Russian, Chinese, Cuban, North Korean, and Vietnamese communists were all basically the same threat. In reality, most of those communists couldn’t stand each other; and today, many Muslim groups have no interest at all in working with other groups. The Saudis and the Iranians, for example, want absolutely nothing to do with each other. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/91 "2015-02-20T14:18:32Z")
Well, he is right in the fact that the U.S. has taught those growing up in the middle east that it is a country to be hated. Driven by greed and a lust for war and control, the US has devastated the middle east. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/92 "2015-02-20T16:23:34Z")
It is a fact that the U.S. is unpopular in the Middle East. However, predicting that the Middle East could unite to challenge the U.S. in any way is still not plausible in any way whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/93 "2015-02-21T01:14:48Z")
China would love to be the policeman for this part of the world. I think I’ll keep the US, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/94 "2015-02-21T07:42:59Z")
Before the US does anything, we need to know what the plan is for after. I mean after the body bags of our troops come home, after the trillion dollar bill comes in, I mean after we kill the last of ISIS, and there’s a huge vacuum in the region, both Syria and Iraq, who creates the new government? Who’s going to stay and be police? Remember, Iraq was a hell hole up until 2007 and the surge. We added 20,000 more troops to our already 120,000 that were already there. Britain added another 5,000. We went to the tribal leaders and asked what they needed to stop the violence and they of course responded, “MONEY”. We were basically bribing them. And yes the violence went markedly down. Do we really want another similar situation? With indefinite occupation? I want to know just what the long term plan would be, EXACTLY, before we send any of our ground troops in. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/95 "2015-02-21T12:30:57Z")
A little old-school imperialism would probably do the job in a generation or two - establish a new government administered by US citizens, nationalize the schools and teach a western curriculum to all children, open the country to colonization, etc. Of course, I don’t see that going over very well in the short term. ---
**Author:** ![ManagerSquad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@ManagerSquad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManagerSquad)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/96 "2015-02-21T15:41:54Z")
You make a few excellent points, but if ISIS only consisted of 30,000 then why is the US and many other countries for that matter trying way harder then necessary to stop them. This is not only going to be a war on keeping ISIS members under control and keep them from raising up their own governments in torn down countries, but it is also another war on terrorism, like I said before the US has been pegged as the "Bad Guy’ in modern day Middle Eastern countries. With that being said, our fight against ISIS is not for “policing” the world, we are fighting to keep ISIS out of the US. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/97 "2015-02-22T15:55:18Z")
> [@ManagerSquad](#): > > With that being said, our fight against ISIS is not for “policing” the world, we are fighting to keep ISIS out of the US. In that case, we needn’t fight at all. ---
**Author:** ![ManagerSquad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@ManagerSquad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManagerSquad)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/98 "2015-02-26T16:46:04Z")
If we do not fight against ISIS, the threat of newly recruited ISIS members in the United States. What makes you say that there will not be terrorist attacks in the next couple of days, after all they have threatened many of the most popular venues, such as the Mall of America in Minnesota. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/99 "2015-02-26T17:14:34Z")
> [@ManagerSquad](#): > > Have we all forgotten the fact that many of the middle-eastern countries are taught growing up to hate the United States… With that being said if the US sits back and does nothing to stop/resist growth in ISIS then they will grow bigger to eventually give the US a run for our money. It’s like Chomsky never happened. I guess he didn’t for quite a few in this thread. Here’s a hint, you don’t have to agree with everything someone says to get an education. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738/100 "2015-02-26T19:39:27Z")
Chomsky is a loon. There’s nothing you can learn from him (outside of linguistics) that you can’t learn from a aged hippie with an LSD-fried brain and an interest in current events. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usa-should-stop-policing-the-world/712738.md?page=6)