# The use of the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, was it justified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2025, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901 "2025-08-10T03:53:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2026, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/201 "2026-08-14T20:28:06Z")
Only if we had started a war with them because they got in the way of the resources we needed to invade Canada and Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2026, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/202 "2026-08-14T21:53:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > For instance, if you turn it around would Japan (if they had the capability) have been justified in dropping just two atomic bombs-one on New York City and one on Washington DC? Speaking of context, what is the context for this alternate history? Would the bombs have saved millions of American lives from an invasion, and would the Japanese government have rebuilt the U.S. with tens of billions of dollars of aid instead of ravaging, enslaving, mass murdering, and razing it as a conquered country as they had been doing for a decade? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/203 "2026-08-17T03:39:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > For instance, if you turn it around would Japan (if they had the capability) have been justified in dropping just two atomic bombs-one on New York City and one on Washington DC? What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/204 "2026-08-17T03:43:20Z")
I think that, using their own goals (and not our own, because that would just be silly), I am pretty sure that Japan would have no problem justifying using those bombs if they thought there was a chance that doing so might slow (or even stop) our involvement in the war. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2026, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/205 "2026-08-17T04:06:20Z")
We aren’t asking them if they feel it would be justified. The question for you is if the use of atomic bombs by the Japanese would be morally justified? You asked the question. What is your opinion? Not what would the Japanese think. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/206 "2026-08-18T15:08:16Z")
A post was merged into an existing topic: [Brendanman posts](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brendanman-posts/1032397/8) ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/207 "2026-08-18T01:55:44Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1032397/8): > > War airplanes dropped those dumb bombs in the middle of hundreds of bullets shoot from ground against them. Getting near the borders of Japan’s main land was so problematic. By 1945, the Allies had near total control of the skies and could bomb Japan with impunity. The _Enola Gay_ didn’t encounter enemy fighters or flak on its way to bomb Hiroshima. At some point in 1945, the Japanese just stopped responding to allied air attacks for the most part as they simply didn’t have the resources. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/209 "2026-08-18T03:02:51Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1032397/8): > > Regardless of the several books written about this war against Japan, what I see is that the previous attack over Tokyo burning the entire city because of the use of incendiary bombs and killing 100,000 civilians, and later the dropping of the two atomic bombs, those two events indicate to me that Japan was starting to win the wear, not to be losing it. > > Something similar to the current events with the war in Iran, where voices start to claim about plans of using nukes against that country. If those claims are correct, surely is not because we are winning the war, surely not. In no universe was Japan “starting to win the wear [_sic_].” At best, they hadn’t lost yet. Japan could no longer defend itself from aerial attack, was limited to kamikaze attacks by untrained pilots, and was prepared to fight to the last civilian if invaded. But regardless, the situations are completely different. WWII, including the war in the Pacific, was a total war situation. And the U.S. was trying to defeat an enemy by requiring its surrender after responding to an attack made by that enemy resulting in thousands of deaths. The general feeling was, “They started it, and we’re going to finish it.” Iran, on the other hand, is a war of choice following the U.S. tearing up an agreement (by Trump in 2018) that Iran had been adhering to. Were the U.S. to firebomb Iranian cities indiscriminately or use WMDs in an unprovoked attack would be a war crime and invite sanctions by he rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/210 "2026-08-18T03:44:11Z")
> [@robby](#): > > In no universe was Japan “starting to win the wear [_sic_].” At best, they hadn’t lost yet. Japan could no longer defend itself from aerial attack, was limited to kamikaze attacks by untrained pilots, and was prepared to fight to the last civilian if invaded. Not in 1945, certainly. Nor in 1944. Probably not even in 1943. Most experts say the War in the Pacific turned at the Battle of Midway in 1942, but the war was not even close to a certainty then. I would ask that the war in Iran should maybe go to the other several threads about it, not here. Please. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/211 "2026-08-18T05:04:20Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > You asked the question. What is your opinion? Not what would the Japanese think. But my question concerns whether the Japanese could justify, _to themselves_, the dropping of two atomic bombs on the United States. It is way too easy to justify to yourself an attack on another country. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/212 "2026-08-18T13:02:42Z")
Is anyone arguing that they wouldn’t have done it if they had the chance? I don’t see how that helps us decide if the US was justified or not. Can you connect the dots? ---
**Author:** ![Cmyers1980](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyers1980/32/11814_2.png) [@Cmyers1980](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cmyers1980)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/213 "2026-08-18T16:55:33Z")
Imperial Japan performed atrocities daily that would make Art the Clown blush. They clearly wouldn’t have an issue in using an extremely powerful bomb on their enemies. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/214 "2026-08-18T16:57:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > But my question concerns whether the Japanese could justify, _to themselves_, the dropping of two atomic bombs on the United States. Here is your question. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > “Justified” is such an interesting, yet vague, word to use in this context. For instance, if you turn it around would Japan (if they had the capability) have been justified in dropping just two atomic bombs-one on New York City and one on Washington DC? Nothing in those words can be construed to ask if the Japanese could justify the action to itself _at the time_. The entire thread is about the question of whether people _today_ consider it justifiable. That’s the context. Do you believe that anybody, even the Japanese, in today’s world would consider their bombing America justifiable? Remember, again, that opinions today cover the past 80 years not just 1945. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/215 "2026-08-18T19:10:49Z")
I’m not seeing where the argument is. Of course it was justified, and the right decision as well. The other options (invasion of the home Islands and continuing the blockade and bombings) were likely to both cause _millions_ of deaths each. By comparison, the Japanese got off lightly with the Hiroshima and Nagasaki strikes, and the 300,000 deaths between the two. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/216 "2026-08-18T21:27:48Z")
There was, naturally, no nuclear taboo back then, and those atomic bombs were developed to be _used._ Even so, even in 1945, atomic-bombing Kyoto was deemed to be not justified. So it was not simply “anything goes”. Food for thought. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/217 "2026-08-18T23:05:43Z")
I don’t know if Stimson’s veto of Kyoto as a target was a question of “justification”, as much as other places had more military value and less cultural significance, and Henry Stimson personally had affection for the city. The long pole in the tent for targeting was actually which cities hadn’t already been bombed to ashes by that point in the war. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2026, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/218 "2026-08-18T23:16:34Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I don’t know if Stimson’s veto of Kyoto as a target was a question of “justification”, as much as other places had more military value and less cultural significance, and Henry Stimson personally had affection for the city. That’s what I’ve always heard. I’ve also heard that Heidelberg in Germany was never bombed for similar reasons. And during the final Allied advance in 1945 it was simply bypassed, reportedly because the American general had read Mark Twain’s book about the historic city. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2026, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/219 "2026-08-19T00:19:24Z")
All true, but one interesting thing is that Stimson said during the meeting on July 24 that “if elimination [of Kyoto from the list of targets] was not done, the bitterness which would be caused by such a wanton act might make it impossible during the long post-war period to reconcile the Japanese to us in that area…” It is established that this was not all cold calculation on his part, but there seems to me to be a sense that he felt it was not “justified” and that he recognized that the Japanese would feel that way, too. As opposed to the people who put it at the head of the target list because it would really send the Japanese quite a message (cf. nuking New York City) ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2026, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/220 "2026-08-19T22:39:57Z")
Pretty well hashed out the arguments, I’ve not heard any convincing arguments against. Horrible things. One of the things that will strike the reader who delves into the Manhattan project history at any depth is the priority placed upon it. The U.S. government _was_ pretty slow on the uptake initially and drug their feet. But once the green light to go ahead was given, it was an amazing feat of marshaling resources and personnel and the rest of it. The constant refrain with everyone was “every day counts”, there was absolutely no time to waste, and the strong belief that such a weapon would shorten the war. The Interim Committee and others discussed a “Demonstration” test as some had suggested, but even the best minds could not conceive of a better way than an unannounced bombing of a military or strategic target. The idea was to shock the Empire of Japan government or military to surrender. A demonstration was pretty much out of the question for a few reasons. One, and it was a major one, what if it’s a Dud? They also did not want the fissionable material to fall into their hands if it failed to detonate. American casualties and KIA were running into the thousands per week. There was absolutely no way a crash program that had spent $2 Billion in 1940 dollars _wasn’t_ going to be used on the enemy forces. No chance. The public would have lynched the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff and Cabinet had they found out there was a new super weapon that wasn’t deployed. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2026, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/221 "2026-08-20T00:16:34Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > The public would have lynched the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff and Cabinet had they found out there was a new super weapon that wasn’t deployed. Absolutely correct and a point that modern moralists refuse to consider. Use of the bomb is profoundly different from other past behaviors that were allowed and approved by vast majorities. Those had even at the time a minimum of decades of consideration, with loud minorities condemning the practices as immoral. Only a handful of people knew that a working bomb existed and they were swayed more by considerations of the immediate consequences of not using it - reasonably well understood - rather than the almost total long-term unknowns of using it. That even with those consequences thoroughly studied for 80 years, the consensus that the bomb was justified then and never justified at any time since is a welcome refresher to the chauvinistic insanity more often found in today’s world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901.md?page=12)