# The use of the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, was it justified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2025, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901 "2025-08-10T03:53:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/121 "2025-08-13T14:08:34Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > And in spite of all their martyrdom and victimhood theatrics, [Japan still has not signed the UN Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons](https://www.icanw.org/japan). Maybe because they understand how effective they are? And want to keep that as an option for themselves if the US ever abandons them? Japan, despite having a record number of irradiated cities and citizens, nonetheless also uses nuclear power generation. Certainly, their reaction to being atomic bombed was not a complete rejection of all things nuclear. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/122 "2025-08-13T14:08:36Z")
_Well, we picked up Harry Truman floating down from Independence We said “What about the war?”, he said “Good riddance” We said “What about the Bomb, are you sorry that you did it?” He said “Pass me that bottle, and mind your own business”_ - The Rainmakers ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/123 "2025-08-13T14:18:43Z")
And then, there was the Japanese Nuclear Weapons Reasearch Programs. Programs, PLURAL. One for Army, one Navy. > **[Japanese nuclear weapons program](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_nuclear_weapons_program)** > > During World War II, Japan had several programs exploring the use of nuclear fission for military technology, including nuclear reactors and nuclear weapons. Like the similar wartime programs in Nazi Germany, it was relatively small, suffered from an array of problems brought on by lack of resources and wartime disarray, and was ultimately unable to progress beyond the laboratory stage during the war. > Today, Japan has no known nuclear weapons programs. It is a signatory in good standing of ... ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/124 "2025-08-13T14:26:50Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Maybe because they understand how effective they are? And want to keep that as an option for themselves if the US ever abandons them? Certainly some of Japan’s right-wingers share that opinion, though the government rarely breathes a word of it. I’ve heard wild talk that given Japan’s robust nuclear power industry, space program, and expertise in electronics, they’d be about a year from developing nuclear missiles if they chose to do so. Which they’re not even proposing, but they’re also not signing the treaty either. My point there is, if Japan wants to posture about nuclear weapons being an intolerable evil that should never again be used, and should be banished from the earth, they’re not exactly walking the walk. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/125 "2025-08-13T14:31:44Z")
I see no evidence that Japan is doing that. If you have a cite please provide it. Japan would certainly _prefer_ that such weapons never be used again, and no doubt their experience is a factor in that stance. Some Japanese no doubt do think nuclear weapons are intolerable because the nation of Japan is composed of individuals with a wide range of opinions and preferences. As you note, though, there are some Japanese at the opposite end of the spectrum. I haven’t looked up the current official position of the Japanese government on nuclear weapons because I don’t have time this morning, but regardless I do not expect the citizens of Japan to have a unanimous opinion on the topic. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/126 "2025-08-13T14:41:20Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I see no evidence that Japan is doing that. If you have a cite please provide it. I’m not providing a cite for something that I didn’t state, but I’ll rephrase what I did say for clarity: It’s widely held that Japan is a “de facto nuclear state”, meaning they possess all the capabilities needed to develop a nuclear missile very quickly _if they chose to do so_. You can read more about that in the [Wikipedia article on Japanese nuclear weapons programs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_nuclear_weapons_program), specifically under the heading “De facto nuclear weapons state. Again I haven’t said they’re pursuing this, and there’s nothing particularly nefarious about being an advanced industrial nation having the _potential_ to produce such weapons. Presumably Japan is more trustworthy and sober with this capability than most other countries we could name. But it’s somewhat eyebrow-raising that a country who protests nuclear weapons so loudly, and has a latent nuclear capacity, is conspicuously declining to sign the UN treaty prohibiting nuclear weapons. And from time time time, [far-right fringe politicians do advocate for a Japanese nuclear deterrent](https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/15913989). ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/127 "2025-08-13T15:27:20Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Over 140,000 of _just_ ground-based military personal from _just_ the US had been killed fighting the Nazis in Europe A great uncle of mine was killed (I believe might still technically be MIA though according to my father nobody ever expected to even get his body back) in the Italian campaign, I believe at either Monte Cassino or Anzio. Nearly 80 years later somebody related to either the DoD or the Army reached out to my father asking if he’d be willing to give a DNA sample to see if they could find a match to repatriate. He did and they didn’t. Says something that so much later there were still attempts to send remains home. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/128 "2025-08-13T15:35:05Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I’m not providing a cite for something that I didn’t state, but I’ll rephrase what I did say for clarity: Thank you for the clarification, I appreciate your effort in making that post. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/129 "2025-08-13T16:02:40Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > I’m not sure. I think that if the Allies were faced with the deaths of 100,000 service men and women then other options would receive serious consideration. These could range from an ongoing blockade to achieve surrender over time, to negotiated cessation of hostilities (a la N/S Korea) with no return of territory, to return of territory in exchange for surrender etc. etc. The Germans surrendered unconditionally (after Hitler was dead and Russia had captured Berlin, but up to that point there had been no peace negotiations.) Why should the Japanese be given any better terms? > [@Jasmine](#): > > Hitler ordered them not to retreat. He basically murdered an entire army. So we had already seen how a German soldier ordered to fight to death would fight to the death, and we had seen how a Japanese soldier ordered to fight to the death would fight to death. Not to bring current events too deeply into this thread, but how are negotiations going in our current global hot spots? ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/130 "2025-08-13T16:10:21Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Why should the Japanese be given any better terms? They shouldn’t. Japan’s unprovoked attacked on Hawaii, a U.S. territory at the time, was as bad as it gets. Hitler’s declaration of war didn’t involve any attack on us at all. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/131 "2025-08-13T16:17:02Z")
It has already been mentioned that people like Bomber Harris found it OK and justified to take out German cities (with the comcomitant civilian casualties and so on). Why would they feel differently about Japanese cities? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/132 "2025-08-13T16:19:39Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Why would they feel differently about Japanese cities? Who’s they? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/133 "2025-08-13T16:25:15Z")
They who ordered strategic firebombing, and nuking, of Japanese cities. > [@Broomstick](#): > > If Truman had had more atomic bombs he would have kept dropping them until either the supply ran out or the Japanese surrendered. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/134 "2025-08-13T16:54:20Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > It has already been mentioned that people like Bomber Harris found it OK and justified to take out German cities (with the comcomitant civilian casualties and so on). Why would they feel differently about Japanese cities? Sir Arthur Travers Harris was a psychotic commander dedicated to killing German civilians by fire bombing German cities. He supported Churchills’ propaganda needs. Totally unrelated to the US in the Pacific. The 1945 attitude of the American public toward the Japanese was developed during years of killing all the Japanese inhabitants of South Pacific islands. To the citizens of the US, Japan was just another island. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/135 "2025-08-13T17:01:52Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > So we had already seen how a German soldier ordered to fight to death would fight to the death, and we had seen how a Japanese soldier ordered to fight to the death would fight to death. Nitpick, while in general the Germans did follow orders, in Stalingrad and other places, the Germans did follow the orders to fight to the end, “the end” there was not what Hitler wanted. > **[Friedrich Paulus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Paulus#Surrender)** > > Friedrich Wilhelm Ernst Paulus (23 September 1890 – 1 February 1957) was a German Generalfeldmarschall (Field Marshal) during World War II who is best known for his surrender of the German 6th Army during the Battle of Stalingrad (July 1942 to February 1943). The battle ended in disaster for the Wehrmacht when Soviet forces encircled the Germans within the city, leading to the ultimate death or capture of most of the 265,000-strong 6th Army, their Axis allies, and collaborators. > Paulus fought... > Paulus and his staff surrendered on the morning of 31 January 1943. The events of that day were recorded by Colonel Wilhelm Adam, one of Paulus’ aides and an adjutant in the XXIII Army Corps, in his personal diary: > > “Paulus awoke and sat up. It was the HQ commander. He handed the colonel general a piece of paper and said: ‘Congratulations. The rank of field marshal has been conferred upon you. The dispatch came early this morning—it was the last one.’ > > ‘One can’t help feeling it’s an invitation to suicide. However I’m not going to do them such a favour.’ said Paulus after reading the dispatch.” > Hitler told his staff: > > “In peacetime Germany, about 18,000 or 20,000 people a year chose to commit suicide, even without being in such a position. Here is a man who sees 50,000 or 60,000 of his soldiers die defending themselves bravely to the end. How can he surrender himself to the Bolshevists?!”[17] > Paulus, a Roman Catholic, was opposed to suicide. During his captivity, according to General Max Pfeffer, Paulus said, “I have no intention of shooting myself for this Bohemian corporal.” Paulus also forbade his soldiers from standing on top of their trenches in order to be shot by the enemy.[18] It was him and the still remaining 91,000 German soldiers who surrendered at Stalingrad. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/136 "2025-08-13T17:09:20Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > It was him and the still remaining 91,000 German soldiers who surrendered at Stalingrad. Is what they did to Russian civilians ‘defending themselves bravely’. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/137 "2025-08-13T22:07:16Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > > [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > > > And I strongly suspect that despite his misgivings, Truman would have dropped the third bomb had it been ready and the Japanese still hadn’t surrendered > > Absolutely. > > If Truman had had more atomic bombs he would have kept dropping them until either the supply ran out or the Japanese surrendered. > > Fortunately, the supply was small and the Japanese did surrender. My understanding is that future atomic bombs would have been set aside and used in conjunction with the planned invasion. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/138 "2025-08-13T22:45:50Z")
Quite likely. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/139 "2025-08-13T22:47:36Z")
Yes it was justified. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2025, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901/140 "2025-08-14T00:36:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > My understanding is that future atomic bombs would have been set aside and used in conjunction with the planned invasion. Here’s the [transcript of a phone conversation](https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/28444-document-87-telephone-conversation-transcript-general-hull-and-colonel-seaman-sic) between General Hull, the Vice Chief of Staff and Director of Operations for the Army, and Colonel Seeman on General Groves staff. It took place on Aug 13, so 4 days after Nagasaki, and 2 days before the surrender. Hull essentially stated they were possibly/likely going to change the original plan of using the bombs as they became available, to stockpiling them for the invasion in November, the thought being that if 2 bombs didn’t convince them to surrender, there’s no reason to suppose a 3rd, 4th etc would. Seeman said there was one bomb available immediately that was scheduled to be dropped on Aug 19, then expect 3 in September, 3 in October, and one every 10 days for the foreseeable future. Hull said they were planning on using them in the invasion, to support beach landings by “neutralizing a division or a communication center” immediately before the invasion. I’m not sure there’d _be_ a Japan any more if that’s how things worked out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-atomic-bomb-in-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-it-justified/1021901.md?page=8)