# The use of the N word **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 9, 2020, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160 "2020-01-09T03:52:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/41 "2020-01-10T03:59:30Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > IMO the one in Alice’s Restaurant is more offensive because it more blatantly implies that two people are actually homosexuals using an offensive slur, rather than using the word out of jealousy and vaguely disparaging their manliness, which isn’t to say calling a pretty boy who doesn’t have a “real job” a “faggot” is not offensive, it’s just not as offensive as calling someone a “faggot” for enthusiastically singing with another man. How about Joe Jackson in “Real Men” singing “_You don’t want to sound dumb, don’t want to offend So don’t call me a faggot, not unless you are a friend_” ? Joe himself is bisexual. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/42 "2020-01-10T04:14:16Z")
I worked on a game once that was trying to cash in on the popularity of _GTA: San Andreas_, except instead of a sprawling open world game, they just decided to have the characters say the n-word as much as possible while you ground your way through an utterly uninspired corridor shooter. We licensed some hip-hop songs for the game. One of them had a lyric that referred to “niggers and faggots.” And we bleeped “niggers” in the song, despite it being every third word in the game’s dialogue, but left “faggots” alone. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/43 "2020-01-10T04:42:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think that it’s abundantly clear that the message of _Blazing Saddles_ is anti-racist, and I’m not sure how someone could fail to see that. Absolutely, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/44 "2020-01-10T13:55:48Z")
Here’s my real life “n” word story. When I lived in NYC, I was friendly with a local disabled veteran, Michael. A fairly young guy, racially mixed, one of those guys that ran out and enlisted after 9/11. While in Iraq, he lost a leg in a roadside explosion. He also suffered a serious head injury which resulted in other issues such as emotional lability. Michael lived in a “wounded warrior” housing unit near where I lived. He would hang out on the street in his wheelchair, talking to his friends and, yes, bumming money for food - the local merchants liked him and gave him large amounts of food for small amounts of money. We talked about a lot of things, including the mixed attitudes of people towards veterans in general and Michael in particular. One day he was talking about his relationship with some of the other veterans in the neighborhood, the older white “greatest generation” WW2 vets. He was telling me that they were generally really good to him and they would take him to the local bar and buy him drinks. But then his emotional issues would surface and he’d start crying or ranting. And then, in his words, it was “time to go, n\*\*\*\*r”. Michael started using that phrase as sort of a punchline. We’d be hanging out talking and one of the older veterans would join us and he’d grin and whisper “time to go, n\*\*\*\*r”, in my ear. And I did smile when he did that. And the last thing in the world that I would have done was chastise this guy for his language. I think he felt that phrase succinctly described his mixed feelings about that group of older veterans, and I sort of agreed. And it bonded us, largely because of the inappropriateness of the word. But is was still weird for me, because “n-word”. And I NEVER would repeat that punchline myself, even though Michael tried to get me to a few times. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/45 "2020-01-10T14:37:53Z")
I’m content with the current social etiquette that reserves the word for use by black people and Quentin Tarantino, but I think we can be mature enough to leave past utterances in Art and History unedited. It’s a shame that one of the most brilliant (and funny) commentaries on the power of that word has been all but scrubbed from TV History. I’m referring to the SNL sketch featuring Chevy Chase and Richard Pryor. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/46 "2020-01-10T15:37:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think that it’s abundantly clear that the message of _Blazing Saddles_ is anti-racist, and I’m not sure how someone could fail to see that. Because some people are so busy being offended, that they don’t have any time for common sense. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/47 "2020-01-10T22:33:15Z")
When we proscribe or censor words like “nigger” or “faggot,” we weaponize those words, and we weaken the groups described by them. There is no more potent way to keep “nigger” a powerful weapon for a malignant user than to ban it. Banning “nigger” turns its use into An Event. It creates a contest for the Most Offended to step up and be recognized as champions of the downtrodden; protecting blacks who are so weak that even words are enough to beat them down. Censor it in a movie or a book, and instead of cleaning up an insult, you allow the word to retain all of the evil that ever went into it. We do well to let the audience of language form their own opinions for any word use. Sticks and stones is a far more powerful approach than is giving those with malicious intent words capable of inflicting maximum pain because the words are so powerful they need to be censored, and the targets of the malice so weak they need White Knights to keep them from being hurt. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/48 "2020-01-11T02:40:53Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#): > > It was perfectly appropriate how the word was used in the movie. > > It was also appropriate that the word doesn’t meet TCMs standards and practices and got bleeped. They play to a wider audience then might appreciate that kind of _edgy_ humor. This is absurd and shows a complete lack of what TCM is all about. TCM is about fighting for the preservation and airing of film. Not about censorship. TCM is showing a John Waters/Divine double feature this evening: Female Trouble and Multiple Maniacs. The contents of early Waters film makes Blazing Saddles look like a mainstream comedy. If TCM edits these films, I will never watch them again; if they dont they are absolute hypocrites for editing BS. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/49 "2020-01-11T05:39:40Z")
> [@Garak](#): > > that’s weird. TCM usually shows everything uncensored I thought I’ve never seen it air on TCM but it runs a lot on AMC, which bleeps things. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/50 "2020-01-11T06:54:03Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > > [@Leaffan](#): > > > > Although Canada, if you recall, decided that Dire Straights “Money for Nothing” could no longer be played on the radio without bleeping or removing the word “faggot.” This was through a self- governing body called the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council. After a lot of people wrote them to explain the context of the slur the decision was eventually reversed. But most stations still choose to edit it out. > > How did they feel about Arlo Guthrie’s use of the same word in _Alice’s Restaurant?_ **Colibri** sure didn’t like it when I used the word “faggots” (without quotes) in a parody-quote of _Alice’s Restaurant_ a few years ago. See [this thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=449776), Posts [#29](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15296095#post15296095) and [#31](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15297438#post15297438). > [@Belly-rubbing Mexicans](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/belly-rubbing-mexicans/431906/31): > > [Moderator Note] > > **Senegoid** , I realize that this is a parody of _Alice’s Restaurant_, but many people may not recognize it. In any case, let’s avoid the gratuitous use of offensive terms like “faggot” in this forum. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![atimnie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atimnie/32/11_2.png) [@atimnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atimnie)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/51 "2020-01-11T14:47:46Z")
I sense that the mods, not all, but a few, don’t quite get the concept of parody, games, and satire. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/52 "2020-01-11T16:44:26Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > I am curious to know if the editing got so out of hand, if in the scene where the Gov wraps his arm around Cleavon and says “Don’t you realize that man is a ni-” they bleeped out “ni-”. > [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > When we proscribe or censor words like “nigger” or “faggot,” we weaponize those words, and we weaken the groups described by them. Which begs the question, did they censor Slim Pickens “Kansas City faggots” a song or two after “nigger work songs” or Dom Delouise’s “Watch me faggots” in the ‘French Mistake’ scene? What about “docking the napping chinks” pay? Scoff at slippery slopes all you want, but with offense levels so prevalent and disparate, you almost could imagine a point the audio track starts to resemble and old Emergency Broadcast System test tone. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/53 "2020-01-11T20:56:34Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > When we proscribe or censor words like “nigger” or “faggot,” we weaponize those words, and we weaken the groups described by them. :dubious: What a convenient hypothesis, for people who aren’t in those groups and who don’t want to be inconvenienced by having to pay attention to whether the language used in their social circles is offensive. > [@Chief Pedant](#): > > There is no more potent way to keep “nigger” a powerful weapon for a malignant user than to ban it. Hmmm. By that reasoning, you’d think that all those decades during which that particular racial slur was accepted in in widespread use would have succeeded in de-powering and de-potenting it as a verbal weapon. But surprise surprise, turns out that black people still strongly objected to being called “nigger” even when it was no big deal to most white people. How peculiar. > [@Chief Pedant](#): > > Banning “nigger” turns its use into An Event. The malignant use of that word was **always** An Event for the people targeted by it. Just because most white people back in the day didn’t much mind hearing it doesn’t mean it was genuinely a trivial thing or no big deal. > [@Chief Pedant](#): > > It creates a contest for the Most Offended to step up and be recognized as champions of the downtrodden; protecting blacks who are so weak that even words are enough to beat them down. Hmmm. Funny how I never hear that insinuation of “weakness” used to deplore, say, prohibitions of slurs like “kike” or “yid” or antisemitic graffiti targeting Jews. If public rejection of hate speech really had such deleterious “weakening” effects on minorities, you’d think that the anti-“weakness” advocates would be all up in arms about it when some nazi paints a swastika near the local shul. _“What do you mean, it’s an intolerable and unacceptable hate crime? Are you trying to turn that congregation into a despised bunch of fragile sissypants by suggesting that they’re so weak that even a bit of paint on the sidewalk is enough to beat them down? Why, if you really cared about the Jews, you’d be out there painting more swastikas yourself, just to help them become tough enough to handle it! :mad:”_ But no, oddly enough, it’s only blacks and gays who seem to attract these helpful folks selflessly trying to strengthen their emotional immune systems by warning that they aren’t getting sufficient exposure to hateful slurs. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/54 "2020-01-12T00:27:47Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > … > > But surprise surprise, turns out that black people still strongly objected to being called “nigger” even when it was no big deal to most white people. How peculiar… Let’s not get into this hijack. This thread is in no way shape or form about calling black people by that term. It’s all about what is acceptable\* in works of art. \* ---
**Author:** ![atimnie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atimnie/32/11_2.png) [@atimnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atimnie)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/55 "2020-01-12T03:02:55Z")
It’s tangentially related, and not really a hijack. Still out of place, but let’s not call it what it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/56 "2020-01-13T19:48:07Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Because some people are so busy being offended, that they don’t have any time for common sense. And beyond that, the absurd and gratuitous use of the word was part and parcel of that message- it pointed up the racists and their attitudes. Censoring it is a sort of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, at least in terms of Blazing Saddles in particular. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/57 "2020-01-13T20:43:18Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > The original mini-series also didn’t have the murder of the gay guy, but it did in the new one. > > (Interestingly enough, I read somewhere that the kid who played Henry in the mini-series absolutely hated using the n-word, and after every scene, he’d apologize to the kid playing Mike.) Something similar happened with _Blazing Saddles_: > [@](#): > > While filming, Burton Gilliam (Lyle, the henchman of Taggart (Slim Pickens)) was having a difficult time saying the word “nigger”, especially to Cleavon Little, because he really liked him. Finally, after several takes, Little took Gilliam off to the side and told him it was okay because these weren’t his words. Little jokingly added, “If I thought you would say those words to me in any other situation we’d go to fist city, but this is all fun. Don’t worry about it.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/58 "2020-01-13T21:54:12Z")
The whole thing about why that word isn’t used is because black people have told us that it is offensive. Lately, black people have been saying that they don’t like even the mentioning of the word because it feels like white people just want to find an excuse to say it. After that guy lost his job at Netflix, and I didn’t see any black people arguing in his defense, I decided that things had moved on and I needed to stop saying it. I am not black. I don’t get to choose to say a word that is offensive to black people on my own. They tell me when it is acceptable. This is so I can also tell people what things are too offensive to say about my minority. And also because I’m against causing unnecessary offense. If I am offensive, it should be intentional. Otherwise it gets in the way. I concur that nothing is actually lost from Blazing Saddles with the word bleeped. We know what word it is. And the transgressive element of attacking the Innocent Western has passed, so the shock that they would dare say it is unnecessary. My only requirement is that the original remain available. But if anyone wants to air it without that word, that is fine with me. TV stations censor far less offensive words. People don’t complain that “fuck” or “shit” was absolutely necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/59 "2020-01-14T11:17:04Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Lately, black people have been saying that they don’t like even the mentioning of the word because it feels like white people just want to find an excuse to say it. Yeah, I get that feeling too from some white people very carefully not **using** the word but apparently seizing on any excuse to **mention** it. Like the kid with his/her finger half an inch away from your face saying _“I’m not touching yoooouuuu!”_ > [@BigT](#): > > My only requirement is that the original remain available. But if anyone wants to air it without that word, that is fine with me. TV stations censor far less offensive words. People don’t complain that “fuck” or “shit” was absolutely necessary. Yup. We are in no danger of actually losing the unredacted original versions of such artworks with the original slurs included, and people can seek out those original versions if they want to. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160/60 "2020-01-14T21:55:47Z")
Did TMC at least have the artistic sense to bleep it out using a church bell? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-the-n-word/846160.md?page=4)