# The use of thermite as an insurgent weapon **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 25, 2022, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114 "2022-02-25T17:05:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/1 "2022-02-25T17:05:29Z")
I never hear anything about thermite. It was used in a WWII movie to destroy German artillery in the D-Day invasion, but I (personally) haven’t heard much about it since. It seems easy to make (three parts iron oxide – rust – to one part aluminum powder), and magnesium ribbons to start the reaction are commonly available. It seems to me that iron oxide powder is easily made. How hard is it to get aluminum powder? Is thermite a viable weapon for insurgents to use to sabotage equipment? ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/2 "2022-02-25T19:11:02Z")
Here in the US, aluminum powder is available by mail from pyrotechnic suppliers. It’s also a component of binary explosives. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/3 "2022-02-25T19:14:30Z")
> [@GaryM](#): > > Here in the US, aluminum powder is available by mail from pyrotechnic suppliers. It’s also a component of binary explosives. - “Officer, I swear I was just going to make my own aluminum foil with this rolling pin.” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/4 "2022-02-25T19:26:07Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Is thermite a viable weapon for insurgents to use to sabotage equipment? Assuming that you’re looking at a fairly simple device with thick metal parts then, likely, setting some thermite on top of the joints of any moving parts or inside the shaft would cause sufficient damage to render the device unusable. But it’s going to take a few minutes to set up and do properly and you’re going to need to be careful on placement (judging by what I’ve seen on Mythbusters and YouTube). Thermite doesn’t make stuff catch on fire and self-destruct. It’s more like blowing something with a welding torch for a minute - and you can’t change the location that you’re focused on - so you could create a bond or make a hole in a reasonably thick piece of metal, but that’s about it. In that same time, and if dealing with a more complicated/less robust device, you’re probably better to just wack the thing with a crowbar or light the surrounding structure on fire. Likewise, you might have a quicker and easier time disabling a device with solder, metal glue, or many other materials. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/5 "2022-02-25T20:20:56Z")
I swear, I didn’t even know thermite was real. I thought John Campbell just made it up for what they used to release The Thing from the ice. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/6 "2022-02-25T20:44:23Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > But it’s going to take a few minutes to set up and do properly and you’re going to need to be careful on placement I was thinking along the lines of a pre-made charge; like in a soda can/bottle, satchel, etc. so you wouldn’t have to mix it on the spot, and that you could easily place it on top of, say, an engine. Just place it, light the magnesium ribbon, and run away. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/7 "2022-02-25T21:08:46Z")
It’s relatively heavy in proportion to its destructive power - if you want to break something beyond repair, a small shaped charge of plastic explosive can probably do the job to the same degree of effectiveness, at a fraction of the weight and size. Also, thermite tends to need to be placed on top of the thing you want to destroy so that the molten iron produced by the reaction can flow down through and into the target object, whereas high explosives can be placed a little more conveniently and flexibly, and still cause damage. OTOH, Thermite is absurdly easy to make even if you can’t buy the ingredients ready made. I suppose I had better not go into details on that. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/8 "2022-02-25T21:30:40Z")
The problem with thermite is that if it isn’t precisely located, all you end up getting is a large spot weld. Easier ways to set something on fire, and scavenged RDX is a lot lighter and more versatile. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/9 "2022-02-26T01:18:44Z")
You’ll never get a real answer to this question here. Look it up on youtube, guys have been making it in their backyard for like 20 years. You can judge for yourself how destructive it is. sure it can be use to weld, and in fact railroads use it all the time to weld the joints in the rail to make CWR. But you can also use it to do some serious damage. One guy made a pretty basic form to shape it and cut a steel beam. ---
**Author:** ![QMatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/aeb1de/32.png) [@QMatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QMatic)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/10 "2022-02-26T03:56:01Z")
> [@GaryM](#): > > Here in the US, aluminum powder is available by mail from pyrotechnic suppliers. It’s also a component of binary explosives. It is also the powder used in an Etch A Sketch ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/11 "2022-02-26T04:20:56Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > railroads use it all the time to weld the joints in the rail to make CWR. Not so much weld the joints making CWR as welding the joints when a piece of it needs to be replaced. They are perfectly capable of handling quarter-mile lengths of continuous welded rail. [Welding a repair joint.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7JfNBmcjXo) [CWR train rounding a tight curve.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4kC262exiw) ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/12 "2022-02-26T06:15:54Z")
They use it any time they need to weld any section of rail to another, including the quarter mile sections that come off the rail train, which is new rail, not just for repairs. They generally use joints and bolts for quick repair and then come back and weld them much later. They don’t always lay new rail a quarter mile at a time. They cut the quarter mile sections to the length they need and use thermite welds to join them. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/13 "2022-02-26T08:25:48Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > CWR train rounding a tight curve. I still find this amazing every time I watch it - that the load being transported is assumed to just be able to bend around corners. I mean, I know it’s all deliberate and calculated and that steel rail is pretty much like cooked spaghetti at this scale, but it still catches me every time - in what other contexts does the answer to ‘how do we transport this very long thing?’ just turn out to be ‘bend it around every corner’ ? ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/14 "2022-02-26T17:50:24Z")
I was at an industrial surplus auction where one of the lots was several pallets of premade thermite charges. They were about soup-can sized, metallic, with a membrane over a hole at one end and a zip-strip type deal at the other end. Place, yank pull tab to start the reaction (or maybe light it with a torch? dunno), walk away. My impression is that they were for some electrical application. They couldn’t have held more than a cupfull of thermite each. I suppose you could stick one on the hatch of a tank and spot-weld it shut. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/15 "2022-02-26T18:14:24Z")
It’s _supposed_ to be fiction. Much of it is not. The thermite details are pretty good. > **[The Monkey Wrench Gang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkey_Wrench_Gang)** > > The Monkey Wrench Gang is a novel written by American author Edward Abbey (1927–1989), published in 1975. > Abbey's most famous work of fiction, the novel concerns the use of sabotage to protest environmentally damaging activities in the Southwestern United States, and was so influential that the term "monkeywrench" has come to mean, besides sabotage and damage to machines, any sabotage, activism, law-making, or law-breaking to preserve wilderness, wild spaces and ecosystems. > In 1985, Dream Gar... ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/16 "2022-02-26T23:04:36Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > It was used in a WWII movie to destroy German artillery in the D-Day invasion, but I (personally) haven’t heard much about it since. On D-Day it was set on captured artillery to prevent its re-use if re-captured. It could be a sabotage agent, I guess, if one has the ability to move a quantity of stuff to the proper location and take the time to set it off, but for a quick attack it might be more dangerous to the saboteurs than to its target. As to hearing about it, conspiracy nutcases kept trying (without evidence) to place it in the World Trade Towers. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/17 "2022-02-27T00:34:48Z")
Not exactly what you’re looking for, but during the Taliban’s attack on the Green Village complex in Kabul, the attackers came prepared with thermite grenades to burn through the steel doors of the safe rooms. I know this because I had staff in the building during the attack and I was on the phone with them during it. > **[Massive Kabul blast kills 16 as Taliban steps up attacks](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/9/3/massive-kabul-blast-kills-16-as-taliban-steps-up-attacks)** > > Taliban claims attack that killed at least 16 people and wounded more than 100 others in the Afghan capital. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/18 "2022-02-27T10:28:03Z")
I suppose thermite might be useful for getting into a disabled tank where the soldiers inside have locked it up and refuse to come out. Once the tank crews learn the insurgents are melting their way into tanks they will likely just start surrendering instead. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/19 "2022-02-28T20:24:27Z")
Or just weld the hatches shut so they can’t get out either. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114/20 "2022-02-28T20:25:59Z")
I believe that all or most tanks have escape hatches in the floor. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-use-of-thermite-as-an-insurgent-weapon/960114.md?page=2)