# The USPS closes. What will be the result? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 5, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295 "2011-09-05T18:24:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/21 "2011-09-05T22:00:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Ah, yes, and here we have the rich guy’s assumption that everyone in the country has internet access. He’s not making that assumption. He’s attacking the monopoly given to the Post Office as being anachronistic, which it is. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/22 "2011-09-05T23:27:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > He’s not making that assumption. He’s attacking the monopoly given to the Post Office as being anachronistic, which it is. What monopoly? The post office doesn’t have a monopoly on delivering things to people. Or did you miss the references earlier in the thread to FedEx and UPS? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/23 "2011-09-05T23:29:17Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Ah, yes, and here we have the rich guy’s assumption that everyone in the country has internet access. Probably the sort of person who thinks that “poor” means that you don’t have both summer and winter homes. It’s annoying, but frankly, people do it so much anyway (see any e-book discussion involving them supplanting physical books) that I can’t get too upset over it. (I get more upset when it comes up in said e-book discussions.) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/24 "2011-09-05T23:29:32Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Let’s look at the facts: the PS now faces a $5 billion debt for healthcare that they can’t pay. The want WDC to do something about it, which would mean using tax dollars to bail them out. Since they’re not funded by tax dollars, this will result in taxpayer outrage, and rightly so. Why rightly so? The USPS is required to support itself under the rules set by Congress. If it takes Congressional approval to allow the USPS to eliminate Saturday delivery (which it does), and if it takes Congressional approval to change the health insurance model to pay-as-you-go rather than pay-ahead (which it does), why on earth do you think that the Postal Service should not appeal to Congress to change the rules? They’re not asking for a bailout, they’re asking that the rules be changed so that they can remain solvent. I suppose they could appeal to Congress to ask for a law to bust the unions. That might please some people. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/25 "2011-09-05T23:36:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > He’s attacking the monopoly given to the Post Office as being anachronistic, which it is. Nobody is stopping a private company that wishes to deliver a letter from Savoy, Massachusetts to Lake City, Colorado for 44 cents. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/26 "2011-09-06T00:51:41Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Nobody is stopping a private company that wishes to deliver a letter from Savoy, Massachusetts to Lake City, Colorado for 44 cents. The USPS has a monopoly on “non urgent” mail and access to private mail boxes. You can’t deliver “urgent” mail for that price. Did you ever wonder why FedEx doesn’t offer a cheap, 5-day delivery option? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/27 "2011-09-06T00:53:04Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Nobody is stopping a private company that wishes to deliver a letter from Savoy, Massachusetts to Lake City, Colorado for 44 cents. If you insist on delivering it to the mailbox in front of the Colorado house, yes, someone will be stopping you, as it is illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/28 "2011-09-06T00:53:05Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Why rightly so? The USPS is required to support itself under the rules set by Congress. If it takes Congressional approval to allow the USPS to eliminate Saturday delivery (which it does), and if it takes Congressional approval to change the health insurance model to pay-as-you-go rather than pay-ahead (which it does), why on earth do you think that the Postal Service should not appeal to Congress to change the rules? They’re not asking for a bailout, they’re asking that the rules be changed so that they can remain solvent. > > I suppose they could appeal to Congress to ask for a law to bust the unions. That might please some people. I read it as the USPS asking Congress for cash, but I was skimming the article. Changing the rules to save money is no problem for me. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/29 "2011-09-06T01:00:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Ah, yes, and here we have the rich guy’s assumption that everyone in the country has internet access. Probably the sort of person who thinks that “poor” means that you don’t have both summer and winter homes. Actually, apparently one cannot qualify as “poor” if one owns such extravagances as a refrigerator. (The appliance, that is… I think there’s still a refrigerator _box_ exemption, provided it serves as the primary residence.) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/30 "2011-09-06T01:02:10Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > … I was skimming the article. I guess you were. > [@](#): > > “Something we desperately need is action from Congress to operate more like a business. That’s why we’re looking at other proposals to save us money.” > > … > > The USPS wants Congress to restructure their health care and retirement systems, to make them independent from the federal government. In addition, the agency would move to 5-day delivery, Partenheimer said, but can’t do so without Congressional action. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/31 "2011-09-06T01:03:58Z")
Come on now, folks. The postal service is a necessary public service, just like roads and trash collection. It has higher costs than its cherry-picking private competitors because it is legally required to incur those costs. And it is quite appropriate as a matter of policy to require that, too - don’t be silly. BTW, there are high-population-density areas where UPS contracts with USPS for final delivery of packages - they can’t compete with it on cost or they’d do it themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/32 "2011-09-06T01:06:01Z")
Thousands of enraged, laid off postal workers. What could possibly go wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/33 "2011-09-06T01:06:40Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > BTW, there are high-population-density areas where UPS contracts with USPS for final delivery of packages - they can’t compete with it on cost or they’d do it themselves. Fed Ex as well. I’ve had orders delivered by Fed Ex that were delivered to my local post office, and thence to my mailbox. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/34 "2011-09-06T01:15:31Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Nobody is stopping a private company that wishes to deliver a letter from Savoy, Massachusetts to Lake City, Colorado for 44 cents. They have no interest in that. They have picked off the most profitable part of the business, the packages and boxes. They left the post office with the delivery of letters. But now computer email is killing that. It pretty much is a dying business ,with bills and advertising flyers being the biggest part what is now left. But that service is still needed. who will do it if the post office is killed? Privatizing will result in huge price increases and I am sure worse service. The post office has been at it for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/35 "2011-09-06T01:18:08Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Come on now, folks. The postal service is a necessary public service, just like roads and trash collection. It has higher costs than its cherry-picking private competitors because it is legally required to incur those costs. It is not legally required to have a no layoff policy. It is not legally required to have h/c benefits better than most federal employees. > [@](#): > > [At the same time, decades of contractual promises made to unionized workers, including no-layoff clauses, are increasing the post office’s costs… Postal workers also receive more generous health benefits than most other federal employees.](http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_18827191?nclick_check=1) Bad business decisions were made, exactly what one would expect by an organization immune from competition in certain areas. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/36 "2011-09-06T01:21:05Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > They have no interest in that. They have picked off the most profitable part of the business, the packages and boxes. They left the post office with the delivery of letters. They are legally prohibited from delivering non urgent mail (which is what most of your USPS mail consists of). ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/37 "2011-09-06T01:27:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The USPS has a monopoly on “non urgent” mail and access to private mail boxes. You can’t deliver “urgent” mail for that price. > > Did you ever wonder why FedEx doesn’t offer a cheap, 5-day delivery option? Yes, because it’s not worth it to them to have the home-owner set up a Fed Ex mailbox. If you think for one second that if I set up a separate mailbox for non-USPS use, that Fed Ex will deliver to it for anything remotely resembling the price of the USPS, you’re dreaming. May we have a cite on the “non-urgent” mail, please? Then may we have a cite on the urgent desire of UPS and Fed Ex to deliver “non-urgent” mail? You know, the companies that charge extra to deliver packages to a residence? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/38 "2011-09-06T01:28:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > They are legally prohibited from delivering non urgent mail (which is what most of your USPS mail consists of). It may not be urgent, but plenty of it is still important: Bills, prescription drugs, even some checks. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/39 "2011-09-06T01:41:20Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > May we have a cite on the “non-urgent” mail, please? Behold the [Private Express Statutes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Express_Statutes): > [@](#): > > The Private Express Statutes (or PES) are a group of United States federal civil and criminal laws placing various restrictions on the carriage and delivery of letters by all organizations other than the United States Postal Service. > [@](#): > > Exceptions > “Extremely Urgent” letters > In 1979 the Postal Service authorized the delivery of extremely urgent letters outside the USPS; this has given rise to delivery services such as Federal Express and UPS. These letters must either cost at least the greater of $3 or twice what First Class (or Priority) mail service would cost, or they must be delivered within strict time limits or otherwise lose value. They must be marked “EXTREMELY URGENT”… > > Lawful private carriage > It is possible to set up a private mail delivery service known as “lawful private carriage” if the USPS postage is paid in addition to any private postage fee that is collected. Records must be maintained that such postage has been paid, and it must be affixed to the letter cover by U.S. stamps, meter imprints … ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/40 "2011-09-06T01:59:43Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Yes, because it’s not worth it to them to have the home-owner set up a Fed Ex mailbox. If you think for one second that if I set up a separate mailbox for non-USPS use, that Fed Ex will deliver to it for anything remotely resembling the price of the USPS, you’re dreaming. That’s just one aspect. See below: > [@](#): > > May we have a cite on the “non-urgent” mail, please? Then may we have a cite on the urgent desire of UPS and Fed Ex to deliver “non-urgent” mail? You know, the companies that charge extra to deliver packages to a residence? [Private Express Statutes](http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/private-express-statutes/) > [@](#): > > Private express statute refers to set of civil and criminal federal laws restricting the carriage of posts and letters by all organizations other than the U.S. Postal Service. (USPS). The U.S. Government created private express statute for the best interest of general public. However, the U.S. postal service (USPS) can suspend private express statute if it believes private postal service benefits the public. I never claimed there was an “urgent desire” by FedEx to deliver 1st class mail. Just noting that it is no coincidence that they don’t. Nobody does, because they are prohibited by law form doing so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295.md?page=3)