# The USPS closes. What will be the result? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 5, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295 "2011-09-05T18:24:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/41 "2011-09-06T01:59:46Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Behold the [Private Express Statutes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Express_Statutes): Well, in fact, Fed Ex (1973) and UPS (1907) both existed before 1979. Thank you for the info, though. However, I find nothing on the wikipedia page of either company that indicates they are interested in delivering non-urgent mail. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/42 "2011-09-06T02:04:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I never claimed there was an “urgent desire” by FedEx to deliver 1st class mail. Just noting that it is no coincidence that they don’t. Nobody does, because they are prohibited by law. OK, let’s change the law. No problem. Fed Ex, as well as the USPS, is now allowed to steal bread, sleep under bridges, and deliver a letter from Savoy, Massachusetts to Lake City, Colorado for 44 cents. What do you think will change? Who will gain? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/43 "2011-09-06T02:06:03Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > If you insist on delivering it to the mailbox in front of the Colorado house, yes, someone will be stopping you, as it is illegal. The local newspapers around here get around that restriction by providing their own boxes for their own product. Presumably, said private delivery service could deliver to a non-USPS box that is also on the same property. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/44 "2011-09-06T02:11:05Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > OK, let’s change the law. No problem. > > Fed Ex, as well as the USPS, is now allowed to steal bread, sleep under bridges, and deliver a letter from Savoy, Massachusetts to Lake City, Colorado for 44 cents. What do you think will change? Who will gain? I will gain. I can use FedEx to deliver 1st class mail for me for less than the post office. I don’t even care if it takes longer because I almost never use snail mail for anything that is important. The point being, what made sense 200 years ago doesn’t necessarily make sense today. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/45 "2011-09-06T02:12:26Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The local newspapers around here get around that restriction by providing their own boxes for their own product. > > Presumably, said private delivery service could deliver to a non-USPS box that is also on the same property. And said delivery services would then be at a competitive disadvantage to the USPS, which dumps the mailbox cost on its customers. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/46 "2011-09-06T02:26:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I will gain. I can use FedEx to deliver 1st class mail for me for less than the post office. For less than 44 cents? No matter where in the United States you want it to go? Seriously? You believe that? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/47 "2011-09-06T03:21:25Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > For less than 44 cents? No matter where in the United States you want it to go? Seriously? You believe that? I don’t mail letters to anywhere the United States. The only letter I mail are Christmas cards (all to major metropolitan areas) and few bills, which go to centralized collection centers. If I need the one-off letter to go to podunk US, I’ll pay once for that privilege and you wont’ have to subsidize me. The point being that having 3 or 4 companies competing for your business is better than one government mandated monopoly. And having more choice over what I pay to send what where lets me decide if it’s worth the snail mail option or not. Now, is it absolutely guaranteed that I will net out a lower price? Of course not. But widely accepted economic principles say that it is much more likely. I’ll take my chances with the option where I have more choice rather than less. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/48 "2011-09-06T03:56:05Z")
> [@astro](#): > > How does it subsidize them? > [@bump](#): > > **Chronos** already said that in his post. > > Basically FedEx and UPS will deliver themselves where it’s convenient, but where it’s not convenient (i.e. to some podunk town of 75 people 10 miles outside of the “big town” of 500 people), they’ll pay the postage for the USPS to deliver it for them. From what I’ve seen, it’s not a “subsidy” in the sense of the USPS losing money on the transactions. There doesn’t seem to be much publicly available information on the USPS side of the SmartPost program with FedEx, but the USPS’s annual reports describe it as a revenue-positive activity. In other words, both FedEx and the USPS make money off the program, because the USPS has a fleet of last-mile trucks where FedEx doesn’t. Similarly, the USPS transports its Express Mail deliveries via FedEx airplanes because FedEx has a fleet of airplanes and the USPS doesn’t. It’s financially advantageous to both parties to do this, but I don’t think we would typically describe FedEx as “subsidizing” the Express Mail program. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/49 "2011-09-06T04:21:46Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > By delivering items over the last, most expensive, mile. the post office is delivering the last mile already. If Fed Ex and UPS withdraw their postal business there will be that much less mail to deliver and they will need even more money to stay afloat. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/50 "2011-09-06T04:43:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If I need the one-off letter to go to podunk US, I’ll pay once for that privilege and you wont’ have to subsidize me. But what if you lived in Podunk, US? How does small-town America survive with no affordable postal service? The fact is that shipping large quantities of mail between New York and Boston is cheap, per item. Fed Ex and UPS would make a killing in non-urgent mail between these cities (and other metropolises), likely seriously undercutting USPS. However, they will not service East Bumfuck, IL for those rates. And without the cheap mass-mail routes subsidizing the East Bumfuck route, USPS is even more screwed than it is today. So, I guess ultimately the question is: “Is it in the best interests of the country for the citizens of the major metropolitan areas to subsidize the postal service of the rural communities?”. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/51 "2011-09-06T06:26:04Z")
One thing I’ve never understood, in terms of the business sense of it, is reduced rates for bulk mailing. If I’m flooding the system with thousands of pieces, creating that much more work, why do I pay less than the occasional mailer? Shouldn’t the grocery stores and the Pennysavers that are relentlessly throttling the mail week after week be paying for that privilege rather than being subsidized by those of us who send birthday cards and that one persistent bill that can’t be paid online? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/52 "2011-09-06T07:27:54Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > One thing I’ve never understood, in terms of the business sense of it, is reduced rates for bulk mailing. If I’m flooding the system with thousands of pieces, creating that much more work, why do I pay less than the occasional mailer? There are very detailed, explicit rules for how bulk mail is pre-sorted and delivered to the USPS. Effectively, bulk mailers do a lot of the sorting work for the Postal Service, so they get a discount for that work. The discount varies, depending on how much pre-sorting work they have done. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/53 "2011-09-06T07:35:16Z")
The USPO is very inefficient-my town has three post offices-each within half a mile. Plus-junk mail-why does the PO send this crap? I just throw it out-and the PO has spent energy and time delivering this crap-which no one wants. Let it go nder and reorganize it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/54 "2011-09-06T07:47:01Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > One thing I’ve never understood, in terms of the business sense of it, is reduced rates for bulk mailing. If I’m flooding the system with thousands of pieces, creating that much more work, why do I pay less than the occasional mailer? > > Shouldn’t the grocery stores and the Pennysavers that are relentlessly throttling the mail week after week be paying for that privilege rather than being subsidized by those of us who send birthday cards and that one persistent bill that can’t be paid online? As t-bonham posted, bulk commercial mail has to be delivered to the post office all presorted by destination. Because of this, it costs much less in labor costs. It’s actually commercial mail that is subsidizing your personal mail. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/55 "2011-09-06T07:59:30Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > The USPO is very inefficient-my town has three post offices-each within half a mile. Plus-junk mail-why does the PO send this crap? I just throw it out-and the PO has spent energy and time delivering this crap-which no one wants. > Let it go nder and reorganize it. I think you’ll find that after the reorganization is done, you’re going to end up paying a lot more for mail service. You think anyone else is going to give you door-to-door delivery service anywhere in the country for forty-four cents? I just checked the Fed-Ex website. If I want them to deliver a letter to Los Angeles, they’re quoting me a price of $14.58. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/56 "2011-09-06T13:22:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think you’ll find that after the reorganization is done, you’re going to end up paying a lot more for mail service. > > You think anyone else is going to give you door-to-door delivery service anywhere in the country for forty-four cents? I just checked the Fed-Ex website. If I want them to deliver a letter to Los Angeles, they’re quoting me a price of $14.58. Did you read anything on the first page of this thread? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/57 "2011-09-06T13:42:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t mail letters to anywhere the United States. The only letter I mail are Christmas cards (all to major metropolitan areas) and few bills, which go to centralized collection centers. If I need the one-off letter to go to podunk US, I’ll pay once for that privilege and you wont’ have to subsidize me. > > The point being that having 3 or 4 companies competing for your business is better than one government mandated monopoly. And having more choice over what I pay to send what where lets me decide if it’s worth the snail mail option or not. > > Now, is it absolutely guaranteed that I will net out a lower price? Of course not. But widely accepted economic principles say that it is much more likely. I’ll take my chances with the option where I have more choice rather than less. Three or 4 companies will absolutely not compete. They will split the areas up and prices will soar. Competition is good for the consumer. Since it is bad for companies, they will do everything they can to avoid it. We have oligarchies. They are spending their efforts on cutting services that are not as money making or more of a bother. They are not trying to provide a service like the post office does. They are trying to squeeze every nickle out of it. In your scenario, you are allowing some greedy businessman decide how to cut your choices and raise your costs. Competition in America is long dead. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/58 "2011-09-06T14:09:02Z")
I fully expect Republicans in Congress to refuse to fund the USPS shortfall, in the name of debt reduction, the same way they used the debt ceiling talks. The result of this will be a win for Obama in 2012. Too many retirees still get their Social Security benefit delivered as a paper check via snail mail, and if delivery is interrupted or slowed down, they will crucify who ever is responsible. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/59 "2011-09-06T14:34:38Z")
If the USPS closes, Netflix will be in trouble. I guess they want to kill the DVD by mail model anyway, but I’ll be sad to see it go. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295/60 "2011-09-06T14:45:15Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > So, I guess ultimately the question is: “Is it in the best interests of the country for the citizens of the major metropolitan areas to subsidize the postal service of the rural communities?”. Exactly. Unfortunately, the answer is all too often “I don’t give a rat’s ass about the best interests of my country or what is good for the long haul. I want to save money right now for meeeeee. Me, me, me, me me.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-usps-closes-what-will-be-the-result/595295.md?page=4)