# The USS Liberty and Conspiracy Theories **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 15, 2009, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101 "2009-07-15T12:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/61 "2009-07-15T21:28:35Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > That sounds like the language of people who are saying to themselves, “Oh shit, what did we just do?” That’s just what the [del]Zionist Conspiracy[/del] Israel Lobby that controls this country _wants_ you to think. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/62 "2009-07-15T21:30:35Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I disagree that there is a _coherent_ conspiracy theory. My criteria for a _coherent_ conspiracy theory is one in which the conspirators, acting in rational self-interest, enact a plan which they could reasonably have anticipated would gain them a reward worth the risk, using a means that they could reasonably assume would both obtain the reward and allow them to escape scrutiny. > > None of those elements are present here. > > There is no reward alleged that is worth the risk. > > The “plan”, if it was deliberate, makes no sense. How would damaging (but not destroying) the Liberty, in broad daylight, leaving numerous survivors, accomplish anything (other than piss off the US)? How did they anticipate getting away with it, assuming it did in fact acomplish anything? How did they plan on escaping scrutiny? > > As a plan it was laughably bad. The obvious explanation was that it was a screw-up, not a plan. The _objection_ to it being a screw-up is that the Israelis were too competent to make such a mistake (which I think ties into a mythology of Israeli competence and omniscience which one would have thought was exploded by the '73 war, when the Israelis were caught napping); yet if they were so smart, surely they would have come up with a better conspiracy plan than this? Well, one would suppose a few jets would make short work of the Liberty. I doubt they expected the ship to last. Then either it is a, “We dunno what happened to your ship” or a, “Whoops, friendly fire incident…war zone ya know…these things happen. Terribly sorry about that.” They’d totally get away with that. We are not going to start a war over one ship. Indeed McNamara (then Johnson) recalled to sorties launched to go save the ship. Has it ever happened before or since that we refused to rescue an American warship when rescue was entirely possible? Seriously…how does that work? Remarkably the thing went on long enough and the word had gotten out that they had to give up (I presume by that time Johnson was yelling at the Israeli PM) but the Israelis sure tried pretty hard to sink that ship (really is remarkable the ship didn’t get sunk…testament to her crew). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/63 "2009-07-15T21:32:36Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > The mistake is obviously mistaking the Liberty for the El Quseir. Who made the mistake and how did it happen? > > And if you can cite examples of large ships being mistakenly attacked in good visibility conditions by planes I would like to see them. Perhaps it’s happened a few times in all of naval history but it is exceedingly rare. HMS Sheffield, mistaken for the Bismark, by slow flying biplane pilots who were had seen the Sheffield up close and knew it. This was not in good weather conditions, but the Swordfish pilots had more spotting advantages than the Isreali pilots. The only reason the Sheffield didn’t have 8 torpedo holes in it was because of faulty detonators. USS Brant, shelled by fellow ships when they failed to signal off Sicily. During WW2, 4 PT boats were also sunk by ‘friendly’ aircraft. The USS Seawolf, almost certainly sunk by ‘friendly fire’. During the Korean War, the USS Grapple was attacked by a fellow ship at a range of only 900 yards. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/64 "2009-07-15T21:33:38Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Maybe someone could explain then why he signed off on the Naval reports that declared it was an accident? Sure (bolding mine). Note he submitted the report, it went up the chain and somewhere got changed. > [@](#): > > Captain Ward Boston, USN, JAGC, Ret, the chief Navy attorney for the 1967 U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry into the Israeli attack, has recently come forward to repudiate the Court’s conclusion that the attack was “a case of mistaken identity”. Captain Boston has revealed that all available evidence, in fact, pointed in exactly the opposite direction - that it was a deliberate attack on a clearly identified American ship. In his affidavit dated October 9, 2003, Captain Boston states, “Admiral Kidd and I believed with certainty that this attack, which killed 34 American sailors and injured 173 others, was a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew. I am certain that the Israeli pilots that undertook the attack, as well as their superiors who had ordered the attack, were aware that the ship was American.” [See Exhibit attached]. **Captain Boston stated that he has personal knowledge that Admiral Kidd found the attack to be “a case of mistaken identity” in 1967 only because he was under direct orders to do so by Defense Secretary McNamara and President Johnson.** > > SOURCE: [The Moorer Commission](http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/moorer.htm) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/65 "2009-07-15T21:38:55Z")
And yet again, Kidd never said any such thing and Boston waited until Kidd was dead to make that claim. Oh, and Moore isn’t Boston. The question is why Moore’s office signed off on the report. Which is a different report and you should know that from the refutations I provided in the other thread. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/66 "2009-07-15T21:42:54Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Sure (bolding mine). Note he submitted the report, it went up the chain and somewhere got changed. Moorer has been claiming otherwise for some time now, well before Boston’s claims, yet when he had the power to do something about it, he hung his sailors out to dry. Not impressed, and that’s before I get into the near-insanity that is Moorer (A.K.A. Admiral Most-Likely-To-Have-Tried-A Military-Coup-During-that-Era). ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/67 "2009-07-15T21:44:09Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > HMS Sheffield, mistaken for the Bismark, by slow flying biplane pilots who were had seen the Sheffield up close and knew it. This was not in good weather conditions, but the Swordfish pilots had more spotting advantages than the Isreali pilots. > > The only reason the Sheffield didn’t have 8 torpedo holes in it was because of faulty detonators. > > USS Brant, shelled by fellow ships when they failed to signal off Sicily. During WW2, 4 PT boats were also sunk by ‘friendly’ aircraft. > > The USS Seawolf, almost certainly sunk by ‘friendly fire’. > > During the Korean War, the USS Grapple was attacked by a fellow ship at a range of only 900 yards. The Israelis overflew the Liberty eight times, one plane supposedly coming within 200 feet of the Liberty prior to the attack. In daylight, in clear weather. Flag was flying, antenna including a big ass satellite dish very evident, bow number clearly visible. The fighter jets were told where to go and to attack the ship there. They weren’t trying to identify the ship. They were after a target. Despite this supposedly some of the Israeli pilots radioed it was an American ship but were told to continue the attack. After that how do you explain the Motor Torpedo Boats? Do they have problems identifying ships when they are close enough to shoot them with a machine gun? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/68 "2009-07-15T21:45:46Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Moorer has been claiming otherwise for some time now, well before Boston’s claims, yet when he had the power to do something about it, he hung his sailors out to dry. > > Not impressed, and that’s before I get into the near-insanity that is Moorer (A.K.A. Admiral Most-Likely-To-Have-Tried-A Military-Coup-During-that-Era). Even granting that it does not change what Captain Boston said (which was what I was responding to). Moorer just cited it in his report. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/69 "2009-07-15T21:47:14Z")
Just want to point out the factual inaccuracies here. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > It’s nice for you to put your fiction is huge letters. > It’s very considerate for you. > > The USS Saratoga was, actually, about 1/8 the distance away as your fiction claims. > [Whoopsie](http://www.gtr5.com/Witnesses/tully.pdf), eh? You aren’t including time to launch all aircraft in the sortie and for them to assemble: > [@](#): > > MTB Division 914 Commander advises Navy HQ at Stella Maris that ship is identified as > American and fires are under control. [IDF History Department/MTB Division War Log.] > Admiral Martin transmitted first situation report [SITREP]. The message repeated known > situation and launch orders to Saratoga and America. It declared attacking forces hostile and also > stated: > “ETA [estimated time of arrival] FIRST ACFT [aircraft] ON SCENE ONE HOUR AND > 30 MINS [minutes] AFTER LAUNCH. > ESTIMATE LAUNCH AT 1345Z.[1545 Sinai, 0945 Washington]” > [JCS Fact Finding Team Report, June 1967: DTG 081320Z June 1967, COMSIXTHFLT to > USCINCEUR and other commands.] [http://www.thelibertyincident.com/docs/timeline.pdf](http://www.thelibertyincident.com/docs/timeline.pdf) The Admiral is being a bit generous here too with his flight time. Assuming that “the vicinity of crete” means within 100 miles of crete, the Saratoga wasn’t closer than 250-300 miles of the Liberty. Max speed of an a-4 is 673 mph, meaning even if they instantly got to max speed at takeoff they were still 20-25 minutes away. Obviously they can’t get to max speed and climb to the necessary altitude at the same time. Realistically they were at least 30-45 minutes away. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > True. Israeli radar ends 14 minutes and 55 seconds of flight time away from their borders. Pretty much. Maybe you should learn how RADAR works before disagreeing with others. Whoopsie indeed. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/70 "2009-07-15T21:51:13Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > After that how do you explain the Motor Torpedo Boats? Do they have problems identifying ships when they are close enough to shoot them with a machine gun? This really is a game of whack a mole, eh? By the captain’s own testimony the torpedo boats signalled the Liberty in an attempt to determine its identity and were then fired on. Being shot at is generally a pretty good hint that the target isn’t friendly. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/71 "2009-07-15T21:55:39Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The Israelis overflew the Liberty eight times, one plane supposedly coming within 200 feet of the Liberty prior to the attack. In daylight, in clear weather. Flag was flying, antenna including a big ass satellite dish very evident, bow number clearly visible. > > The fighter jets were told where to go and to attack the ship there. They weren’t trying to identify the ship. They were after a target. Despite this supposedly some of the Israeli pilots radioed it was an American ship but were told to continue the attack. > > After that how do you explain the Motor Torpedo Boats? Do they have problems identifying ships when they are close enough to shoot them with a machine gun? Even internally and assuming all facts are true as stated, none of this makes sense if one assumes a predetermined plan or conspiracy. 1. Why overfly a target 8 times, if you are sure it is the target you have been ordered to attack, and ID is so very easy? 2. Why overfly so much, if you do not wish to identify the target? 3. Why radio in that you suspect it is an American ship (and thus to break off the attack), if you have been _told_ to attack an American ship? 4. Alternatively, if the pilots were not in on the secret but were also dupes of the conspiracy - how would that work, if the ship was so easy to identify as American? Did the conspirators lie to the pilots - but in that case, how did they expect the pilots to not notice it was a US ship, if the IDing of the ship is so easy? 5. Allegedly the torpedo boats fired when fired upon, but then broke off the attack. This makes sense if the incident was an accident, but not if it was a predetermined plan. In short, all the evidence appears to point to a screw-up, and none makes sense in the context of a conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/72 "2009-07-15T22:11:43Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Even internally and assuming all facts are true as stated, none of this makes sense if one assumes a predetermined plan or conspiracy. > > 1. Why overfly a target 8 times, if you are sure it is the target you have been ordered to attack, and ID is so very easy? > > 2. Why overfly so much, if you do not wish to identify the target? > > 3. Why radio in that you suspect it is an American ship (and thus to break off the attack), if you have been _told_ to attack an American ship? > > 4. Alternatively, if the pilots were not in on the secret but were also dupes of the conspiracy - how would that work, if the ship was so easy to identify as American? Did the conspirators lie to the pilots - but in that case, how did they expect the pilots to not notice it was a US ship, if the IDing of the ship is so easy? > > 5. Allegedly the torpedo boats fired when fired upon, but then broke off the attack. This makes sense if the incident was an accident, but not if it was a predetermined plan. > > In short, all the evidence appears to point to a screw-up, and none makes sense in the context of a conspiracy. The overflights were reconnaissance planes doing what they do. Supposedly the eight overflights occurred in the 8 hours prior to the attack. I am guessing they were routine patrols that saw the boat and did what they are supposed to do and try to identify the ship. They could pawn the attack off on some pilots seeing a target of opportunity and being a little too gung-ho later in the day. I do not think the attack jets attempted to get close to identify at all. They came straight in and attacked. This of course led them to get close and they saw the American flag at least and I presume this is why they phoned home. With eight previous over flights one would think the IDF knew damn well the Liberty was there. Obviously good enough to vector attack jets on it. More, if the reconnaissance planes thought it was an Egyptian freighter why dork around with it for eight hours before sending someone to blow it up? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/73 "2009-07-15T22:18:23Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Even granting that it does not change what Captain Boston said (which was what I was responding to). Moorer just cited it in his report. I wasn’t asking about Boston, I was asking about Moorer. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/74 "2009-07-15T22:18:54Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The overflights were reconnaissance planes doing what they do. Supposedly the eight overflights occurred in the 8 hours prior to the attack. I am guessing they were routine patrols that saw the boat and did what they are supposed to do and try to identify the ship. > > They could pawn the attack off on some pilots seeing a target of opportunity and being a little too gung-ho later in the day. > > I do not think the attack jets attempted to get close to identify at all. They came straight in and attacked. This of course led them to get close and they saw the American flag at least and I presume this is why they phoned home. > > With eight previous over flights one would think the IDF knew damn well the Liberty was there. Obviously good enough to vector attack jets on it. > > More, if the reconnaissance planes thought it was an Egyptian freighter why dork around with it for eight hours before sending someone to blow it up? This still makes no sense. Why phone home that it was a Yank, if you were ordered to attack a Yank? And if those sending the planes in didn’t tell the pilots they were attacking a Yank - and the Yank was so easy to identify as such - were those giving the orders not concerned that the pilots would say “this is a mistake, it’s a US ship, don’t attack”? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/75 "2009-07-15T22:21:22Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The Israelis overflew the Liberty eight times, one plane supposedly coming within 200 feet of the Liberty prior to the attack. In daylight, in clear weather. Flag was flying, antenna including a big ass satellite dish very evident, bow number clearly visible. The overflights were 8 hours before the attack. Go ask someone in military intelligence how useful an 8 hour old report is on a moving object. > [@](#): > > The fighter jets were told where to go and to attack the ship there. They weren’t trying to identify the ship. They were after a target. Despite this supposedly some of the Israeli pilots radioed it was an American ship but were told to continue the attack. According to who? > [@](#): > > After that how do you explain the Motor Torpedo Boats? Do they have problems identifying ships when they are close enough to shoot them with a machine gun? They were trying to signal the Liberty when the Liberty (accidentally) opened fire on them. Did you read the findings or the Liberty’s Bridge Log? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/76 "2009-07-15T22:23:25Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Just want to point out the factual inaccuracies here. No problem, I already pointed yours out but I see you’re going to compound them. Good job. > [@treis](#): > > You aren’t including time to launch all aircraft in the sortie and for them to assemble: I must admit, I’m envious of your ability to simply change your story in mid-argument and act as if nothing ever hapened. Of course, by your own (bolded, yelling text), you claimed that they were _flying for two hours_. So no surprise I figured you were talking about flight time, not prep time. “IN THE 2 HOURS THE U.S. AIRCRAFT WERE FLYING TOWARDS THE WAR ZONE.” Gee, I wonder why I thought you were talking about two hours during which they were flying. It’s nice for you to put your fiction is huge letters. > [@treis](#): > > The Admiral is being a bit generous here too with his flight time. Assuming that “the vicinity of crete” means within 100 miles of crete, the Saratoga wasn’t closer than 250-300 miles of the Liberty. Max speed of an a-4 is 673 mph, meaning even if they instantly got to max speed at takeoff they were still 20-25 minutes away. :smack: A-4’s were ordered launched from the _America_. A-1’s were ordered launched from the _Saratoga_ whose captain confirms that they were 15-2o minutes away. And yet again, I trust his testimony over his ship’s position and his planes’ capability over yours. Go figure. > [@treis](#): > > Pretty much. Maybe you should learn how RADAR works before disagreeing with others. It’s kinda cute that you’re ignorant of what you’re talking about but still arguing so stridently. By Pearl Harbor, we could detect aircraft at a range of 132 nautical miles. [The AN/SPS-49](http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/an-sps-49.htm), in existence in 1965, has a range of 250 nautical miles. I could continue but something tells me it’d be a waste of my time. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/77 "2009-07-15T22:25:08Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > I wasn’t asking about Boston, I was asking about Moorer. Ah, sorry. I think it was Admiral Kidd who signed off on the report and Boston tells the story that Kidd was ordered by the President to keep it covered up. I am pretty sure when the President tells a member of the military to do something like that they do it, even if it is shitty. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/78 "2009-07-15T22:36:45Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Ah, sorry. > > I think it was Admiral Kidd who signed off on the report and Boston tells the story that Kidd was ordered by the President to keep it covered up. > > I am pretty sure when the President tells a member of the military to do something like that they do it, even if it is shitty. Actually, Moorer signed off on at least one of the reports. There were more than one. I doubt the President was telling Moorer to do it, this was Moorer we are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/79 "2009-07-15T22:38:41Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > According to who? Seems to be the standard effort to conflate the IDF pilots identifying the flag as American with them saying the ship was American. It’s much more conducive to the CT than simply saying that they identified the flag only as American but that HQ was still reporting that the ship itself was Arab. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101/80 "2009-07-15T22:39:06Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > That’s just what the [del]Zionist Conspiracy[/del] Israel Lobby that controls this country _wants_ you to think. You failed to mention Mossad. That’s a pretty telling omission. I’d say more but they’re _everywhere_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uss-liberty-and-conspiracy-theories/503101.md?page=5)