# The "V" sound in "StePHen" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 4, 2012, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-v-sound-in-stephen/636672 "2012-10-04T10:15:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-v-sound-in-stephen/636672/21 "2012-10-08T01:24:23Z")
Not a PH, but the BH in Siobhan is pronounced with a “v”… would that be related? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-v-sound-in-stephen/636672/22 "2012-10-08T01:32:33Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Not a PH, but the BH in Siobhan is pronounced with a “v”… would that be related? Nah, that’s just because someone once decided to use silly nontransliterable\* letters to spell Celtic words with our alphabet. We hates them, we does… The “ph” in Stephen comes from Greek, not Celtic. \*I don’t think that’s a real word, but I’m not sure what it should be. The letters in Celtic writing (often) don’t signify the same sounds they make in English. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-v-sound-in-stephen/636672/23 "2012-10-08T13:42:18Z")
When he was a kid, we always called my nephew “Step-Hen”. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-v-sound-in-stephen/636672/24 "2012-10-08T14:03:18Z")
In Old English, they had the sound of [v], but it was considered only an allophone of /f/. The letter \ didn’t exist yet—it was a French import into Middle English. In Old English the /f/ was pronounced [v] whenever it came between vowels (or between a vowel and a sonant, I think). The speakers of Old English did not think of [v] as a separate sound of its own, but only as a form of /f/. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-v-sound-in-stephen/636672/25 "2012-10-08T14:21:16Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > often intervocalic /s/ becomes /z/ and intervocalic /ʃ/ becomes /ʒ/, but even this has plenty of exceptions ("slices and “dices”, “ **eraser** ”, “messy”, “tassle”, “faucet”, “washer”, “crashing”, “social”, “cachet”, …), “eraser” is not an exception for me. Both the verb “erase” and the noun “eraser” have a [z]. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-v-sound-in-stephen/636672/26 "2012-10-08T15:49:13Z")
Oh. Let me substitute “racer”, then. ---
**Author:** ![Corcaigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Corcaigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corcaigh)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-v-sound-in-stephen/636672/27 "2012-10-08T18:30:53Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Not a PH, but the BH in Siobhan is pronounced with a “v”… would that be related? As is the MH in Niamh ---
**Author:** ![JpnDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@JpnDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JpnDude)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-v-sound-in-stephen/636672/28 "2012-10-09T04:39:31Z")
Isn’t the name “Esteban/Estevan” the Spanish equivalent of “Stefan/Stephan/etc.”? Perhaps it’s a mix of those sounds? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-v-sound-in-stephen/636672/29 "2012-10-09T16:24:46Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Nah, that’s just because someone once decided to use silly nontransliterable\* letters to spell Celtic words with our alphabet. We hates them, we does… > > The “ph” in Stephen comes from Greek, not Celtic. > > \*I don’t think that’s a real word, but I’m not sure what it should be. The letters in Celtic writing (often) don’t signify the same sounds they make in English. _Nontransliterable_ is a fine word, and anyone who says otherwise will be beaten with a cudgel. It is composed of standard word elements; its meaning is clear from context. Admittedly I might have placed a hyphen between the first and second syllables, but I’m a Luddite. 18 points. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-v-sound-in-stephen/636672.md?page=1)