# The value of an Iraqi life: $15,000. What a bargain! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 1, 2007, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196 "2007-10-01T20:20:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/21 "2007-10-02T06:41:20Z")
[QUOTE=athelas] Let’s not be sentimental here. Lives do have monetary value. If you disagree, ask yourself this: How much extra would you pay for a safety device for your car that studies have shown to save the life of 0.1% of drivers? Multiply that by 1000, and that’s how much you value your own life. [/QUOTE] Just a minor point, but it is not necessarily the case that I value a situation which produces outcome X with probability p, outcome Y with probability q, etc., as p \* (my value for X) + q \* (my value for Y) + … So your extrapolation cannot be counted upon to tell us how much we value our life. It can only be counted upon to tell us how much we value a 0.1% chance to save our life. Which is a fairly different thing. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/22 "2007-10-02T06:50:39Z")
let’s be practical here. $15,000 is too much, compared to just littering the area with bait and shooting at will. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/23 "2007-10-02T11:23:20Z")
[QUOTE=Princhester] Let’s be specific here: what are you suggesting they would do? Hang around drunk Americans hoping that one will shoot them accidentally so they can get a payout? Seems a stretch. Or does my point’s validity depend upon whether or not I’ve read a history book? [/QUOTE] History book? Not this time. And why you’re bringing up one of my criticisms of you from another thread is beyond me.\* You probably should have read the OP and the link, however. From the link: > [@](#): > > The figure needed to be lower, the diplomatic-security official contended, so Iraqis wouldn’t "try to get killed to set up their family financially. A history book still might not be a bad idea for you since you apparently never read - but you got to start somewhere. If you had at least cracked a nespaper in the past four years, you would know how fucking easy it is to get yourself shot in a war zone. Unarmed civilians get shot all the time. Easiest way to get yourself shot is to not stop at a checkpoint. Other cases involve some poor guy who happened to be walking up to some American troops holding the distributor cap to a truck. Why don’t you just fly over there and start walking toward some of the assholes working for Blackwater while holding a metal object with wires sticking out of it and see what happens. If somebody wants to get themselves shot, I don’t suspect it would be too hard. I really don’t have a point, personally, so much as I’m explaining the diplomatic-security wonk’s point. I still think you’re one of the most obtuse posters on this board. You argue with passion, but no knowledge. But in the interest of fighting ignorance, I’ll give you a short reading list so maybe, just maybe, you can post something and actually know what you’re talking about. BBC: [Payouts reveal Iraq civilian toll](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6550267.stm) = details of civilian death compensation problems Boston Globe: [Civilian deaths raise Iraqi fears, anger](http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2003/12/03/civilian_deaths_raise_iraqi_fears_anger/)Chilling account of Iraqi’s frustration regarding lack of compensation. Includes the quote ““If they don’t pay our settlement we’ll kill four of them,” said Sheikh Abdul Salam”. NY times: [Civilian Claims on U.S. Suggest the Toll of War](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/world/middleeast/12abuse.html)Similar to the BBC article. Should hammer home how easy it is for a civilain to get killed over there. \*The history book thing related to how **Princhester** had the abject inability to compare the current conflict with _anything_ in the past - From the Roman Empire to the present. He completely dodged the Roman question and was surprised when I suggested he read a history book. He’s an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/24 "2007-10-02T12:09:08Z")
Let’s be repetitive here: let’s be repetitive here. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/25 "2007-10-02T13:18:35Z")
Oh, no. Here comes the next 1920s-style “death ray.” ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/26 "2007-10-02T13:53:10Z")
Let’s be Biblical here: \*"Oh daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."\* Of course, they aren’t really the ones who “served” us on 9/11/01, or posed any more of a threat to us after that Tuesday morning than they had before it, but where there are petrodollars, there will always be those willing to dash little ones against stones. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/27 "2007-10-02T14:21:21Z")
Cool, I contributed to starting a meme! 🆒 [QUOTE=Indistinguishable] Just a minor point, but it is not necessarily the case that I value a situation which produces outcome X with probability p, outcome Y with probability q, etc., as p \* (my value for X) + q \* (my value for Y) + … So your extrapolation cannot be counted upon to tell us how much we value our life. It can only be counted upon to tell us how much we value a 0.1% chance to save our life. Which is a fairly different thing. [/QUOTE] Interesting…does this bias usually exist in one direction? That is, would people overpay to guard against a low-probability event, relative to what they’d pay to guard against a higher-probability event? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/28 "2007-10-02T15:04:17Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] And of course, that $15K pales next to the value of a single year of the life of a live Blackwater merc: [$445,000](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/01/washington/01cnd-blackwater.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1191268933-8Q1wxZ2SKKc0LuwMe6S6IA). [/QUOTE] Let’s be comparative here: until 2005, the US military paid $12,420 for the death of an American servicemember. Now they pay $100,000. Myanmar is paying [$13](http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/as-burmas-junta-reclaims-streets-locals-stand-up-for-monks/2007/10/01/1191091027787.html) for the lives of monks that they have killed. That really leaves me speechless. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/29 "2007-10-02T15:38:52Z")
Let’s be off-topic here: Why does chicken taste so good? When you think about it, those stupid flightless birds look so…foul. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/30 "2007-10-02T15:50:31Z")
Let’s be phlegmatic here. _cough_ Ooops, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/31 "2007-10-02T16:59:47Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] Myanmar is paying [$13](http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/as-burmas-junta-reclaims-streets-locals-stand-up-for-monks/2007/10/01/1191091027787.html) for the lives of monks that they have killed. That really leaves me speechless. [/QUOTE] But they seem to be making it up in volume. Reports elsewhere of thousands being killed. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/32 "2007-10-02T17:46:52Z")
Let’s be asthmatic here. :gasp: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/33 "2007-10-02T17:48:24Z")
Let’s be drunk here: I raise my glass to all the fallen in Iraq! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/34 "2007-10-02T18:15:02Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] Let’s be comparative here: until 2005, the US military paid $12,420 for the death of an American servicemember. Now they pay $100,000. [/quote] Let’s be skeptical here: is there a point to this comparison? > [@](#): > > Myanmar is paying [$13](http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/as-burmas-junta-reclaims-streets-locals-stand-up-for-monks/2007/10/01/1191091027787.html) for the lives of monks that they have killed. That really leaves me speechless. Or this one? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/35 "2007-10-02T18:23:27Z")
Let’s be Russian here: you pay goverment $15,000 to kill YOU!. What a country! ---
**Author:** ![wisernow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@wisernow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wisernow)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/36 "2007-10-02T19:16:06Z")
Let’s nominate this for “Threadspotting” here… ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/37 "2007-10-02T19:52:58Z")
Let’s be pedantic here. Most of these “Let’s be” posts, _including this one_, are merely extending the joke laterally and are not heightening it. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/38 "2007-10-02T19:57:35Z")
If I may speak frankly, it’s time for a new post template. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/39 "2007-10-02T20:03:59Z")
[QUOTE=stolichnaya] Let’s be pedantic here. Most of these “Let’s be” posts, _including this one_, are merely extending the joke laterally and are not heightening it. [/QUOTE] Let’s be argumentative here: Why is that a problem? What’s wrong with lateral jokes? ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2007, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196/40 "2007-10-02T20:11:27Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] And of course, that $15K pales next to the value of a single year of the life of a live Blackwater merc: [$445,000](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/01/washington/01cnd-blackwater.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1191268933-8Q1wxZ2SKKc0LuwMe6S6IA). [/QUOTE] If you actually care at this point, that is bad math. While Blackwater USA might charge $1222 per day per man under the contract, the operator himself is making between $500-750 per day on average. And on average, operators will do 3-4 months in country, then 30-60 days out, then back again. So, while $445,000 would be a bit high, a guy could make $202,500… The above info is pretty generic, and I have no idea if Blackwater operators fit that profile. But operators from other companies do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-value-of-an-iraqi-life-15-000-what-a-bargain/421196.md?page=3)