# "The Vast Majority of Violent Protestors and Looters are Alt-Right Provocateurs" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 31, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802 "2020-05-31T18:46:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/41 "2020-06-02T12:22:21Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Notice how they wear backpacks which I’m guessing is for a quick change of clothes. Or alternatively, they carry backpacks to hold their keys, wallet, phone, water, snacks, etc. I don’t know anyone who goes to an all-day outdoor event without a bag of some type. I have noticed that a lot of protesters wear their backpacks on the front of their bodies rather than their backs. Turns out that not only are backpacks great for holding stuff, they make good shields from rubber bullets and other projectiles. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/42 "2020-06-02T12:50:16Z")
> [@BeagleJesus](#): > > I don’t think I have ever hated America more than I do right now. Then leave/don’t visit. You are not needed or wanted here. These shenanigans are having the opposite effect for me. I never realized exactly how much I cherish what America is/has been/can be. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/43 "2020-06-02T13:00:09Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Then leave/don’t visit. You are not needed or wanted here. These shenanigans are having the opposite effect for me. I never realized exactly how much I cherish what America is/has been/can be. **BeagleJesus** can feel however he wants to feel and so can you. We need all types here. Not just the people who feel the “right” way. I am feeling both love and hate right now. And the ratio of the two is constantly changing, depending on the media I’ve just consumed. You’re not better than me or **BeagleJesus** just because you aren’t feeling this kind of ambivalence, for fuck’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/44 "2020-06-02T13:21:28Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > **BeagleJesus** can feel however he wants to feel and so can you. We need all types here. Not just the people who feel the “right” way. > > I am feeling both love and hate right now. And the ratio of the two is constantly changing, depending on the media I’ve just consumed. You’re not better than me or **BeagleJesus** just because you aren’t feeling this kind of ambivalence, for fuck’s sake. Sure, there’s room for ambivalence. As long as there is uncertainty then there is still some love. Where is the ambivalence in Beagle’s post, eh? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/45 "2020-06-02T13:28:29Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Sure, there’s room for ambivalence. As long as there is uncertainty then there is still some love. Where is the ambivalence in Beagle’s post, eh? I guess I’m not assuming the very worst about an individual who has never given me a reason to think the worst. And I guess I don’t give a freakin’ hoot how much love a person has for his country. Especially a black person (IIRC, **BeagleJesus** is a fellow negro). I’ve got a long list of other things to give a hoot about. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/46 "2020-06-02T13:33:31Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Then leave/don’t visit. You are not needed or wanted here. These shenanigans are having the opposite effect for me. I never realized exactly how much I cherish what America is/has been/can be. Dude, thank you so much! This post perfectly demonstrates the ignorant and asinine thinking, beliefs and behavior that is partially responsible for me hating America so much right now! I was sitting here, struggling, trying to come up with a cogent way to express the various things about our country and citizenry that I hate and really want to change and you just pop in and drop this turd right on top of table for everyone to see and experience. _Another_ white guy telling _another_ black person that they must love America or leave it. I guess show really does beat tell. Please feel free to continue with this ignorant line of thinking where America is perfect just the way it is and everyone who disagrees with that notion shouldn’t be upset or even bother trying to improve things…they should just get the fuck out because that attitude hurts some people’s feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/47 "2020-06-02T13:45:06Z")
Glad to be of service. And thank you for fleshing out your position. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/48 "2020-06-02T14:18:45Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Glad to be of service. And thank you for fleshing out your position. Watch that vid with the “umbrella man”. That guy isn’t some cellar-dweller Antifa type or some Rambo cosplaying militia dude. And white supremacists couldn’t be around that many black folk without soiling their drawers. He is methodical and almost professional. I’m guessing government or merc. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/49 "2020-06-02T17:15:50Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Then leave/don’t visit. You are not needed or wanted here. These shenanigans are having the opposite effect for me. I never realized exactly how much I cherish what America is/has been/can be. America needs people who don’t like its current state WAY more than it needs people who cherish racist shitstorms and rising facism. Seriously, I hope I’m misreading you, because you sound to me like you’re endorsing, and suggesting, something _awful_. I for one think that the country has been in a downspiral for decades and is currently moving at high speed straight towards the ground. I don’t hate it, because that’s effort that gains me nothing, but I don’t pretend that there’s anything to like about racist facists being in charge or cops attacking civilians. And before you tell me to leave, I’m both needed and wanted here. Maybe not by _you_, but by other people whose opinions matter more to me than yours do. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/50 "2020-06-02T17:26:44Z")
If you want a crazy story of a right wing white nutjob causing problems at protests but not going to jail you’ve got to see [this one](https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/police-seize-assault-rifles-handguns-from-anti-government-member-at-protest/73-02e6c44b-def4-4309-8dfc-d2919eee0b46) from Denver. The guy got pissed about a month ago when another Boogaloo guy got arrested with pipe bombs for threatening to kill public officials over the shutdown. He made several threats on YouTube about starting shooting. He was then found down at the protests with a trunk full of weapons and ammo. The police confiscated his guns but didn’t even write him a ticket so now he’s bitching the cops stole his guns. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/51 "2020-06-02T17:33:13Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Watch that vid with the “umbrella man”. That guy isn’t some cellar-dweller Antifa type or some Rambo cosplaying militia dude. And white supremacists couldn’t be around that many black folk without soiling their drawers. He is methodical and almost professional. I’m guessing government or merc. The “umbrella man” video is creepy as hell, and is making me have all sorts of tinfoil-hat-wearing types of thoughts about what the fuck is going on here, but let’s not exaggerate. The guy didn’t fast-rope in from a black helicopter and shoot out the windows of the AutoZone with a suppressed Heckler & Koch MP5. It’s some guy wearing a gas mask, holding an umbrella, and methodically smashing some storefront windows with a hammer. (It looks like they sell gas masks on Amazon. I will leave the umbrella and the hammer as an exercise for the reader.) I would definitely love to know who that guy is and what the fuck he thought he was doing, but I really don’t see anything in that video that rules out “cellar-dweller Antifa type” or “Rambo cosplaying militia dude” or even “cellar-dwelling white supremacist dude”. (For all any of us know, he literally _was_ pissing his pants during that video.) ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/52 "2020-06-02T17:43:35Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > America needs people who don’t like its current state WAY more than it needs people who cherish racist shitstorms and rising facism. Seriously, I hope I’m misreading you, because you sound to me like you’re endorsing, and suggesting, something _awful_. It is a misread. There’s a lot of ground between even “I hate the way America is and the way things are going” and “I hate America”. “I don’t think I have ever hated America more than I do right now” struck me as being closer to the absolute and total disapproval end of that spectrum and I have little patience for that. Evidently I misread something as well. I’m not a perfect human, overflowing with that sweet sweet unconditional agape love, but I also try to not be a selfish ass. I know we have problems as a society. For me to come out of nowhere with, “'Murca Fuk Yeah!” as though we’re the best we’ve ever been would be unexpected, I hope. As I said, even ambivalence means there is still some love. Some indication that through the disappointment there is still hope and a desire to keep working to make the place as inoffensive as possible to as many people as possible. Just misreads all around I guess. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/53 "2020-06-02T17:45:24Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > If you want a crazy story of a right wing white nutjob causing problems at protests but not going to jail you’ve got to see [this one](https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/police-seize-assault-rifles-handguns-from-anti-government-member-at-protest/73-02e6c44b-def4-4309-8dfc-d2919eee0b46) from Denver. > > The guy got pissed about a month ago when another Boogaloo guy got arrested with pipe bombs for threatening to kill public officials over the shutdown. He made several threats on YouTube about starting shooting. He was then found down at the protests with a trunk full of weapons and ammo. The police confiscated his guns but didn’t even write him a ticket so now he’s bitching the cops stole his guns. I bet that guy is jelly of this guy: [White guy who illegally open carried rifle at protest allowed to walk away by police](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/george-floyd-protests-chicago-rifle-armed-white-man-a9543401.html?utm_source=reddit.com) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/54 "2020-06-02T17:52:55Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > It is a misread. There’s a lot of ground between even “I hate the way America is and the way things are going” and “I hate America”. “I don’t think I have ever hated America more than I do right now” struck me as being closer to the absolute and total disapproval end of that spectrum and I have little patience for that. Evidently I misread something as well. I’m not a perfect human, overflowing with that sweet sweet unconditional agape love, but I also try to not be a selfish ass. I know we have problems as a society. For me to come out of nowhere with, “'Murca Fuk Yeah!” as though we’re the best we’ve ever been would be unexpected, I hope. As I said, even ambivalence means there is still some love. Some indication that through the disappointment there is still hope and a desire to keep working to make the place as inoffensive as possible to as many people as possible. Just misreads all around I guess. Fair 'nuff, I suppose, though I will say I always get creeped out by “we don’t need or want your kind here” sentiments. When people in power have those sentiments you get internment camps and human rights abuses (to say the least!), so to me it doesn’t seem like a good look on anybody. Also, and this is basically an aside, I find the whole concept of feeling love for America to be very strange. To me America is either the ground we stand on, or the government that rules over it. I don’t dislike the ground, but don’t feel devotion, and the government is, well… [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/55 "2020-06-02T17:53:35Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > It is a misread. There’s a lot of ground between even “I hate the way America is and the way things are going” and “I hate America”. “I don’t think I have ever hated America more than I do right now” struck me as being closer to the absolute and total disapproval end of that spectrum and I have little patience for that. Evidently I misread something as well. I’m not a perfect human, overflowing with that sweet sweet unconditional agape love, but I also try to not be a selfish ass. I know we have problems as a society. For me to come out of nowhere with, “'Murca Fuk Yeah!” as though we’re the best we’ve ever been would be unexpected, I hope. As I said, even ambivalence means there is still some love. Some indication that through the disappointment there is still hope and a desire to keep working to make the place as inoffensive as possible to as many people as possible. Just misreads all around I guess. Why do you care if someone loves America? Everyone has a different experience in this country. Some people don’t really have a good reason to _like_ this place, let alone love it. Why shit on those people just because you don’t get where they are coming from? Why not just be satisfied with your feelings and keep your judgments to yourself? We didn’t misread you when you told **BeagleJesus** to leave the country. There’s no way to make that not be a shitty remark. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/56 "2020-06-02T17:55:25Z")
“The Vast Majority of Violent Protestors and Looters are Alt-Right Provocateurs” **Of course not. Let’s not be stupid.** Perhaps as many as 2% of the looters at some venues were Provocateurs working for the GOP-Kremlin axis or with the Alt-Right, but I’d guess the number is less than 1%. Still, a single clever provocateur can incite hundreds to riot. It would be reprehensible and dismal if “As many as 0.5% of the looters are right-wing provocateurs”, but _who in Hell changed “as many as 0.5%” into “vast majority”???_ :smack: It sounds like the sort of crap we expect as reverse-psychology lies from FoxNews or White House, but the far left is so STUPID it might come from them. Note that this arithmetic stupidity tends to change the debate hugely in the Stupid States of America. Instead of lamenting that a SMALL number of MAGA-trolls caused the riots, now the evil-doers have deflected the facts and “win” if they can show “Less than half the looters were in our pay; ha ha!” :smack: :smack: > [@Ulfreida](#): > > My guess is that there have been some, and that number is less than what the left would like and more than what the right would. “The left would like” Trump and his allies to cause riots and looting, hunh? \*\*\*Heaven help America. * * * ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/57 "2020-06-02T18:05:56Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > “The left would like” Trump and his allies to cause riots and looting, hunh? > \*\*\*Heaven help America. > > * * * Well, it’s clearly happening one way or the other, and like many simplistic people, I prefer when evil is sourced from evil people - which is say racists and bigots and Trump supporters. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/58 "2020-06-02T18:10:32Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > The “umbrella man” video is creepy as hell, and is making me have all sorts of tinfoil-hat-wearing types of thoughts about what the fuck is going on here, but let’s not exaggerate. The guy didn’t fast-rope in from a black helicopter and shoot out the windows of the AutoZone with a suppressed Heckler & Koch MP5. It’s some guy wearing a gas mask, holding an umbrella, and methodically smashing some storefront windows with a hammer. (It looks like they sell gas masks on Amazon. I will leave the umbrella and the hammer as an exercise for the reader.) I would definitely love to know who that guy is and what the fuck he thought he was doing, but I really don’t see anything in that video that rules out “cellar-dweller Antifa type” or “Rambo cosplaying militia dude” or even “cellar-dwelling white supremacist dude”. (For all any of us know, he literally _was_ pissing his pants during that video.) Generally pretty useless to argue what some guy ‘could possibly be’ without any evidence. I agree, ‘merc or govt’ is very far from obvious. But ‘proving’ what some guy ‘is’ politically based on a video is a waste of time. Anyway when it’s one individual or a few doing extreme things, they don’t necessarily fit into any general template. It can be very idiosyncratic and often involves mental problems which obscure what people ‘are’ ideologically if anything. This often comes up in the individual violent acts of particular people, killings attempting killings. Left or right latches onto their general apparent political affiliation based on whatever they were ranting on the internet, how they registered to vote etc. But there’s often serious doubt how much is ideology and how much is individual mental issues. And that’s people who have actually been named. The idea of ‘right wing agitators’ in the latest violence and destruction is basically groundless AFAICT. Groundless doesn’t mean ‘couldn’t be true’. But there seems an almost complete lack of actually named people traced back to right wing affiliations, or named groups (actually doing this, not ‘saying on the internet they’d like to’). _Somebody_ is doing the destruction and looting, but most of the looting and a lot of the destruction is obviously local people, rioting in the ‘normal’ spontaneous sense. And far left and anarchist groups have done this in lots of basically leftist protests of recent years. The simplest explanation of the weirdly clad out of place people doing it now is that it’s again mainly them. Some other explanation may apply, subject to some actual direct evidence of it. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/59 "2020-06-02T18:16:10Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > It is a misread. There’s a lot of ground between even “I hate the way America is and the way things are going” and “I hate America”. “I don’t think I have ever hated America more than I do right now” struck me as being closer to the absolute and total disapproval end of that spectrum and I have little patience for that. Evidently I misread something as well. I’m not a perfect human, overflowing with that sweet sweet unconditional agape love, but I also try to not be a selfish ass. I know we have problems as a society. For me to come out of nowhere with, “'Murca Fuk Yeah!” as though we’re the best we’ve ever been would be unexpected, I hope. As I said, even ambivalence means there is still some love. Some indication that through the disappointment there is still hope and a desire to keep working to make the place as inoffensive as possible to as many people as possible. Just misreads all around I guess. Based solely off of the vitriol in that statement I have no doubt that you meant every word. My statement was perfectly clear -\* I don’t think I have ever hated America more than I do right now.\* There were no misreads. That statement hurt your feelings and you lashed out with the standard racist white guy response of “_Then leave/don’t visit. You are not needed or wanted here._” IMHO you don’t get to walk that shit back. You said what you said and you meant it. The least you can do is own it. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vast-majority-of-violent-protestors-and-looters-are-alt-right-provocateurs/854802/60 "2020-06-02T18:23:08Z")
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