# The Vatican plays 3-Priest Monte once again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2017, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446 "2017-09-16T02:50:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/61 "2017-09-17T17:16:53Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > The Vatican said that they would do their own investigation, half a world away from victims and witnesses. In the meantime the guy was free, **and died of natural causes later.** That’s what they want you to think… ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/62 "2017-09-17T21:25:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > True, but I know of no other where child abuse is considered “unimportant” and Club Members who commit it can get away with it. There are certainly none whose existence is based on a claim to moral leadership. I can think of a whole bunch of them. I mean, I already said the word “Thailand” in this very thread. Both your country and mine have laws about sex tourism for that very reason - because there are so many countries in the world that don’t do anything about child sex abuse up to and including full-on prostitution. I’ll certainly give you your last point though. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/63 "2017-09-17T21:39:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > but presumably this guy, Capella, won’t die during the process. The Vatican is not adverse to digging up someone’s corpse to put them on trial. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/64 "2017-09-17T21:46:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It would be nice if certain folks would let this play out before ranting about how bad it’s going to be. There is a new sherif in town, so give the guy a chance. The Vatican’s criminal justice system seems more suited to dealing with religious issues, but it does exist, so let’s see how things go. [This won’t be the first time criminal proceedings related to child abuse (or possession of child porn) have been brought against a Vatican Diplomat by The Holy See itself](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_Weso%C5%82owski), **but presumably this guy, Capella, won’t die during the process.** I think if they really lean on him, he’ll sing. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/65 "2017-09-17T22:11:26Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Every time they do this it further demonstrates their corrupt criminal intent in all the other cases. I let the justice system decide who gets tried and when. The justice system has decided that sovereign states get to handle crimes committed by their diplomats. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/66 "2017-09-17T22:20:40Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I think if they really lean on him, he’ll sing. They probably won’t even need to show him the instruments… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/67 "2017-09-17T22:36:06Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > You and others keep dancing around the obvious - what do you want done? It’s been quite clear. The Vatican needs to waive diplomatic immunity and let the criminal investigation and prosecution proceed unhindered. Justice must be done, for the victims as well as for the accused, don’t you think? What keeps you from grasping that - a lifetime of indoctrination, perhaps? > [@](#): > > And if you or they get around to answering that, could you answer the question of what that precedence would set and mean worldwide? There is plenty of precedent for waivers of DI, as already discussed as well. > [@](#): > > Otherwise this is just rage without any thought process at all. Histrionics. Like your posts. Now try reading for comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/68 "2017-09-17T22:38:07Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > I can think of a whole bunch of them. I mean, I already said the word “Thailand” in this very thread. OK, granted. The Vatican’s moral standards really _are_ no worse than those of Bangkok child pimps. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/69 "2017-09-17T22:40:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It would be nice if certain folks would let this play out before ranting about how bad it’s going to be. There is a new sherif in town, so give the guy a chance. The Vatican’s criminal justice system seems more suited to dealing with religious issues, but it does exist, so let’s see how things go. [This won’t be the first time criminal proceedings related to child abuse (or possession of child porn) have been brought against a Vatican Diplomat by The Holy See itself](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_Wesoowski), but presumably this guy, Capella, won’t die during the process. During the time that Wesoowski was supposedly under house arrest, there were sightings of him out and about. The only punishment he actually ever received was laicization. The new sheriff has not given me any reason to trust him. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/70 "2017-09-17T22:43:21Z")
Wesolowski, stupid autocorrect. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/71 "2017-09-17T23:48:50Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > During the time that Wesoowski was supposedly under house arrest, there were sightings of him out and about. Which may or not have been accurate. There are sighting of Elvis, too. > [@](#): > > The only punishment he actually ever received was laicization. He died right when the criminal trial was getting started. I’ll agree that it seems odd to do the whole defrocking thing first, but like I said, their justice system isn’t exactly like ours in that it has an important religious component, too. > [@](#): > > The new sheriff has not given me any reason to trust him. I don’t think he killed that guy or had him killed to cover things up, so I’m still willing to give him a chance. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/72 "2017-09-17T23:55:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It’s been quite clear. The Vatican needs to waive diplomatic immunity and let the criminal investigation and prosecution proceed unhindered. And it’s quite clear the Vatican has decided they don’t want to do that and would rather handle it themselves in their own country, which is their right under the diplomatic immunity policies we have, they have, and the majority of the world have in place and adhere to. So what do you do now, since that isn’t an option? Bitch and complain? Ok. But it sounded like you thought our government should do something more, like keep him and try him here international agreements be damned. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Justice must be done, for the victims as well as for the accused, don’t you think? You’re a real special kind of idiot, aren’t you, appealing to the emotions as if that somehow makes you’re non-argument any more valid. We want to try him. We want to punish him for his crimes. Nobody is saying otherwise. What people are saying and you’re incapable of seeing, is our hands are tied. That’s the agreement we agreed to and expect others to adhere to when the situation is reversed. Crying about the children, and don’t you think something should be done are nothing more than distractions and nonsense to the bigger issue in play. An issue you say nothing more than it needs to be different. How? > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What keeps you from grasping that - a lifetime of indoctrination, perhaps? What the fuck are you talking about. Indoctrination in the church? I’m not religious, never have been. Indoctrination into the idea that in the US we have agreements and rules we adhere to even when we vehemently disagree with the result? I’m guilty. You apparently, could give a shit to that. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > There is plenty of precedent for waivers of DI, as already discussed as well. One has been brought up. One. And it had to do with vehicular homicide. And even then the country could have denied that request. No? > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Now try reading for comprehension. Amazing, coming from someone who so butchered a simple ass post on my part only a couple posts above. How about trying it yourself. And while you’re at that, try writing in a way that actually says something. Anything of substance outside of hyperbole, histrionics, and fallacies. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/73 "2017-09-17T23:59:16Z")
In the case I linked to above, the Vatican did strip the guy of diplomatic immunity, so I wouldn’t rule it out in this case. From their perspective, it’s wise to get the guy back in Rome and then decide what to do. They can always turn him over to the US authorities at a later date, but if they do so immediately, there is no undoing it. And AFAICT, the charge is about possession of pornography, not having physically molested any actual minors, so there isn’t a plaintiff other than the state. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/74 "2017-09-18T00:18:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > In the case I linked to above, the Vatican did strip the guy of diplomatic immunity, so I wouldn’t rule it out in this case. From their perspective, it’s wise to get the guy back in Rome and then decide what to do. They can always turn him over to the US authorities at a later date, but if they do so immediately, there is no undoing it. > > And AFAICT, the charge is about possession of pornography, not having physically molested any actual minors, so there isn’t a plaintiff other than the state. He was stripped of immunity AFTER being recalled to the Vatican - which doesn’t have an extradition treaty with the DR. And about his arrest > [@](#): > > Por esta razón, el acusado fue destituido como diplomático de la Santa Sede en agosto del 2013. Con esta decisión, el Papa ha salido al paso de las voces que criticaban a la Santa Sede por la libertad de la que gozaba el exnuncio, que regresó a Roma -donde ha vivido en libertad- para evitar un eventual proceso en la República Dominicana. > [Lo que se sabe hasta ahora del arresto de Wesolowski](http://hoy.com.do/lo-que-se-sabe-hasta-ahora-del-arresto-de-wesolowski/) He was free until the bad PR made them reconsider. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/75 "2017-09-18T00:23:33Z")
BTW, I am not arguing that we go guns ablaze and arrest diplomats, but the Vatican is not a regular country, so this is on them. I don’t expect any better, so I just roll my eyes at their self-declared moral superiority. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/76 "2017-09-18T02:53:57Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > BTW, I am not arguing that we go guns ablaze and arrest diplomats, but the Vatican is not a regular country, so this is on them. > > I don’t expect any better, so I just roll my eyes at their self-declared moral superiority. What do you mean “not a regular country”. What is a “regular country”, anyway, according to you? It is a sovereign state, one which has diplomatic relations established with the United States, which also happens to be a sovereign state. Those two sovereign states, which have different political systems, are not “non-countries”. Face it. Your compaint is that it’s related to the Roman Catholic Church. You really don’t give a damn about the issue of diplomatic immunity as it pertains to diplomats per se. And that’s why you post nonsense like “it’s not a regular country”. Out of idle curiosity, here’s a question for you. Where has the Vatican said it has “self-declared moral superiority” relating to this case or diplomatic immunity? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/77 "2017-09-18T03:48:16Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > What do you mean “not a regular country”. What is a “regular country”, anyway, according to you? It is a sovereign state, one which has diplomatic relations established with the United States, which also happens to be a sovereign state. Those two sovereign states, which have different political systems, are not “non-countries”. > > Face it. Your compaint is that it’s related to the Roman Catholic Church. You really don’t give a damn about the issue of diplomatic immunity as it pertains to diplomats per se. And that’s why you post nonsense like “it’s not a regular country”. > > Out of idle curiosity, here’s a question for you. Where has the Vatican said it has “self-declared moral superiority” relating to this case or diplomatic immunity? Like I said, I am not calling for breaking diplomatic protocol. I can, however, roll my eyes in their general direction. I was raised a Catholic, attended Catholic school, and if you don’t know why the Vatican is different from, say, Liechtenstein, then I am going to stop this conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/78 "2017-09-18T04:20:20Z")
So you’re not going to explain what you mean by “not a regular country”. Maybe that alone is good enough reason for you to stop this conversation. It should be noted that the Vatican is not the only country which happens to be a theocracy. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/79 "2017-09-18T05:04:01Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Like I said, I am not calling for breaking diplomatic protocol. I can, however, roll my eyes in their general direction. > > I was raised a Catholic, attended Catholic school, and if you don’t know why the Vatican is different from, say, Liechtenstein, then I am going to stop this conversation. The Vatican is a sovereign nation whose neighbors recognize its independence by treaty. It has diplomatic relations with most of the world including the UN, it issues passports, recognizes people as citizens, and recognizes an official currency, and it has a government with the power to make and enforce laws. The fact that its head of state is also an important religious figure doesn’t make it any less of a “regular country” than, say, the UK, whose head of state is also head of the Church of England. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446/80 "2017-09-18T07:54:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The Vatican is a sovereign nation whose neighbors recognize its independence by treaty. It has diplomatic relations with most of the world including the UN, it issues passports, recognizes people as citizens, and recognizes an official currency, and it has a government with the power to make and enforce laws. The fact that its head of state is also an important religious figure doesn’t make it any less of a “regular country” than, say, the UK, whose head of state is also head of the Church of England. That’s not really fair though - it may be fully a country and subject to the rules governing countries (which is certainly my position in this rather depressing affair) but there’s no doubt it’s a _weird_ country. It’s tinier than all other countries. Its citizens are nearly all employees of the state. It’s a theocracy in a way that isn’t really replicated in any other country that I can think of - certainly not in countries that merely have an official state religion that people are free to agree with or disagree with. I hadn’t known anything about Wesolowski, but looking at the wikipedia summary does seem to give some hope in the prospects of the Vatican’s traditionally low, low standards of dealing with sex abuse being on the way up. He’d been a priest for forty years, and was out on his arse within five months of Pope Francis’ accession. His co-accused Gil, was booted even earlier, and Wesolowski’s progress through the Vatican court system doesn’t seem to have been any slower than Gil’s in Poland - they were both committed for trial in 2015. And it looks like that was the first time ever the Vatican had prosecuted a priest for sex crimes against children. All good news. While not disagreeing with anyone here that the Catholic Church’s historical record regarding dealing with sex abuse is pretty appalling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vatican-plays-3-priest-monte-once-again/796446.md?page=5)