It may be a “weird country”, but it’s still a country, and there’s no re-litigating that at this point. It’s not as if the First World is going to drop sanctions or a blockade on them, or invade them over the question of an accused pervert not getting a by-the-books trial.
All we can do is hope the Vatican authorities make an honest effort into investigating the matter and deal with him appropriately if he’s guilty.
Deal with him appropriately-do you mean whisk him away to another Parrish in the middle of the night, or maybe even lose his job? The Vatican has no prison system, letting Italian authorities take care of what petty crimes may take place(usually purse snatching, pick-pocketing and shoplifting). Who will actually be doing the investigating and punishing in this particular case…and what is the worst punishment he could possibly face?
What does it matter? It’s out of our hands now. If the Vatican is unwilling to waive diplomatic immunity, then there’s nothing more we can do about it. We can appeal to some vague Platonic ideal of Justice as much as we like, but if this is how the Vatican wants to deal with this individual, and we’re unwilling or unable to invade the Vatican by force and take him and its government prisoner, then there’s nothing to be done about it.
There are hundreds(if not thousands) of threads out there where people are concerned and/or pissed of about things of which they have no personal control over, but still have questions about-are you going to piss in all of them too?
What do you want me to say? He’s beyond our reach. Sometimes in life we have to accept that the bad guys win.
What’s the fallacy called when you claim to ask a ‘question’ but in reality it’s a statement masked in the form of question even you know you don’t want answered, you just want to make a point?
I know it’s one of the lamer techniques/fallacies, which one is it?
Just wondering.
Your own cite in your first post -
As was mentioned above, in an Italian jail. Or if they want, one of their own cells in the Vatican. A better cite than someone’s word though if you want.
https://cruxnow.com/church/2015/11/03/a-primer-on-the-vaticans-system-of-crime-and-punishment/
Sure we could. We could recall our diplomats from the Vatican. Kick their diplomats out, here, either short term or longer if we want.
Ice relations as it were. Take it any number of places.
Nobodies proposing that though. Not even in this thread.
There are folks who think we should not even have diplomatic relations with the Vatican in this thread, so I’d say people are proposing that. I haven’t really given it a lot of thought myself, but I can see a valid argument that the Vatican should not be given the status of a nation or a state, and be downgraded to some other level. I know that it’s not politically feasible, but is there any practical reason why this would be bad for the US?
N.b.: I would not, however, propose cutting off diplomatic relations retroactively in the sense of just ignoring your current agreement in this particular case.
All I have to do is think things to make a proposal? This is going to make posting a whole lot easier!
Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. Good catch!!
Well, what the fuck did you mean by saying that if people are thinking “A” they must be proposing “B”?
There are people who have posted that idea, so it’s safe to say they think it. I’m sorry if I upset you by posting that. I must not have been thinking.
Why should we bother to tell you what we want or expect when so many others (including you at times) are doing such a wonderful job speaking out for us? All I expressed in this Pit thread was dismay that the Vatican has spirited out of the country yet another of their another of their own. I didn’t know that I had to come up with a solution to this problem before being allowed to be dismayed by it.
What I would have preferred is for the Vatican to allow this investigation into yet another possible sex crime to take place, then if the police find enough evidence allow them to take the next step. By doing what they have done, they have taught the police a valuable lesson: Don’t even think about investigating one of ours, because it will just be a big waste of your time and money.
Who at that point made the suggestion that we could kick diplomats from the Vatican out or send ours home?
Not a great comparison, since the British monarch is ex officio head of the Church of England, whether or not he/she belongs to that communion or is even a believer ( James II was a catholic [ and ruled unopposed for that reason even if his Catholicism was one of the excuses of rascals for deposing him ] and some of the Georges were nearer Lutheranism than Anglicanism, just as the Prussian polity was Lutheran, but Frederick-William I was Calvinist, and even Pietist often enough ) and whether or not he/she wants to be ( like inheriting a lien when you possess a new house ).
The Pope is merely an elected person chosen to be Primus inter pares. Usually a priest.
I really doubt if the US or any other country is important enough that dropping formal relations would affect the Catholic Church.
They’ve gone without diplomatic missions to Russia, China and Albania in the past, the first two of which are bigger, and the last of which is equally precious to them since all countries are of equal importance in the Vicar of Christ’s eyes ( I can’t say in Christ’s eyes, since I really doubt if Almighty God Knows or Cares about the concept of nation-states and Has no preferences as to any ).
I don’t care so much how it would affect the RCC. My question was about how it would affect the US. Unless there is some reason why it would negatively affect us, then I would have no problem discontinuing their unique status. The only thing I can think of is that some countries might think less of us for doing so, or at least they might express that opinion publicly, while privately wishing they could do the same thing (I suspect).
No shit. That’s why this thread exists.
You asked a question about what we *want *to happen, and you got your answer.
Welcome to the Pit.
To repeat (something that has to be done regularly with you, obviously): Read for comprehension.
Except you, when anyone else says the same thing.
So what’s *your *solution, Your Eminence?
I don’t see how it would affect the USA. It’s Reputation Points would go down, but not it’s credit score.
The only countries who would think less would be the snootier ones like France or Switzerland whose opinions Americans don’t value anyway; the countries who privately wish they could do the same thing — not at all the same countries since there’s prestige in having relations with the Vatican, and having Nuncios and even Legates on occasion, swanning about — would be the little ones with a militarized police, homeless lying in the streets, heavy taxes, massive armed forces, unaffordable healthcare, big drug problems and an overinflated belief in their own importance.
I assumed (wrongly) that when you started this thread you actually had a point to make. I didn’t realize you wanted everyone else to make it for you.
It explains all your ‘questions’ though.
Climb that cross higher.
What you want sounds exactly like what happened, short of us being the ones to hold him over for trial. We (the US) got to a point where we wanted to charge him, notified the Vatican of our intentions, and they essentially said we’ll take it from here. They even went so far as to say that look forward to working with us and getting our evidence against him.
So you got what you say you want. I would say further on that point but I don’t want to presume on your behalf anything, like John Mace made the mistake of doing.
What’s that you keep saying about reading for comprehension?
Wait and see what happens to the investigation at the Vatican, and not presume we already know what the results will be.
Yeah-maybe this time they won’t play “Hide The Priest” or let him quietly retire where no one can get to him…unlike all those others. Trusting them at this point considering past history is on par with trusting O.J. to make a sincere effort to find the real killer of his wife.
BTW, how many times are you willing to play “wait and see”?