# The "violets are blue" fallacy **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 17, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770 "2009-05-17T19:05:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/1 "2009-05-17T19:05:49Z")
First of all, violets are not blue. Violets are _[violet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violet_(color))_. That’s why they’re called violets. But this perception problem is by no means limited to members of the _Violaceae_ plant family. Plant fanciers in general seem to have problems with the whole color spectrum thing. I know this because blue is my favorite color. Therefore, I am always on the lookout for blue flowers. You’d think this would be easy, right? Oh, no. [Example](http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=sky+blue+blooms&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=) [Example](http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/13418352CnCizzrmZu?start=12) [Example](http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&um=1&q=blue+iris&sa=N&start=40&ndsp=20) PEOPLE, THOSE FLOWERS ARE PURPLE! THEY’RE PURPLE! I once wrote to a flower expert, asking where I could find any honest-to-God _blue_ blue flowers. She sent me a list of blue varieties. Guess what color most of them turned out to be? And of course, even when the picture in the catalogue is really blue, the seeds are as atp to come up purple as not. There’s no escaping the pernicious purpleness. Yeah, I know, blue and purple come from the same pigment, delphinidin. But if they can come up purple flowers that never approach blueness, why the heck can’t they do it the other way around?! I wheedled my mom into getting some blue irises. I told her to make it clear to the gardener guy that she was looking for blue, not purple. She bought her bulbs, and I eagerly awaited the beautious blooms. Spring sprung, and a cluster of purple irises popped up. GNNNARRRGHH. I’ve had even less luck with turquoise flowers. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/2 "2009-05-17T19:11:57Z")
I have remarked on this before. Blue is extremely rare in the flower world. EXTREMELY rare. This makes it something of a holy grail for flower breeders. Thus, whenever they get a new variety that’s a hair closer to blue on the spectrum, they trumpet its “blueness.” In reality, unless you’re talking about a [gentian](http://www.eco-etho-recherche.com/images/consul-gentian.jpg), [delphinium](http://www.beautifulbotany.com/STOCK%20D-F/Delphinium%20grandiflorum%20%27Blue%20Butterfly%27.jpg), or [meconopsis](http://www.em.ca/garden/meconopsis_grandis1.JPG) (and a tiny scattering of other exceptions, like this bizarrely blue [Salvia](http://www.theheirloomgarden.com/021308%20Photos/gentian%20sage.jpg)), “blue” actually means “slightly more violet than magenta.” (See also “white” for Hemerocallis breeders, “red” for irises, and “black” for just about any plant.) ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/3 "2009-05-17T19:13:19Z")
ETA: Oh and, yes, the cheaper catalogs will often falsely emphasize the blue in their pictures with photoshop. Please refuse to give these liars any business. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/4 "2009-05-17T19:23:33Z")
–and to demonstrate how absurdly easy that is, [this](http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/5443/bluejonquils.jpg) took me six and a half minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/5 "2009-05-17T19:26:20Z")
No wait, sorry, I just found a turquoise flower. However, it’s six feet tall and native to the mountains in Chile. And rare. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/6 "2009-05-17T19:29:28Z")
To be fare, several varieties of [Corydalis](http://ps-l.s3.amazonaws.com/9000744_0.jpg) are a true turquoise, but I find it a weedy looking, unattractive plant. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/7 "2009-05-17T19:31:53Z")
That’s actually really pretty, **lissener**. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![horsetech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dec6dc/32.png) [@horsetech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/horsetech)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/8 "2009-05-17T19:51:12Z")
What about blue hydrangea? One of my favorite flowers. ---
**Author:** ![MoodIndigo1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@MoodIndigo1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoodIndigo1)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/9 "2009-05-17T20:12:41Z")
At a garden in Metis, QC, I saw a bed of blue poppies: the closest to pure blue flowers I’ve ever seen. [![](https://farm1.static.flickr.com/182/438264738_8635458156.jpg) ](https://farm1.static.flickr.com/182/438264738_8635458156.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/10 "2009-05-17T20:42:25Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I have remarked on this before. > > Blue is extremely rare in the flower world. EXTREMELY rare. Why is that? It can’t be that it’s too close to green to stand out, because yellow is also close to green, and there are plenty of yellow flowers. And it can’t be because it’s a cool color (see glut of purple, above). Is it that it’s similar to green _and_ a cool color? Also, if I have a thread that’s part MPSIMSy, part Pit-ish, and has a GQ-type question side topic, where do I put it? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/11 "2009-05-17T20:45:53Z")
Now, lavender, _that’s_ blue, dilly dilly. ---
**Author:** ![Mallory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mallory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallory)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/12 "2009-05-17T21:08:38Z")
What about [chicory?](http://static.open.salon.com/files/chicory1233010763.jpg) Granted, it’s considered a weed, but the flowers are about the bluest I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/13 "2009-05-17T21:12:17Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Why is that? It can’t be that it’s too close to green to stand out, because yellow is also close to green, and there are plenty of yellow flowers. And it can’t be because it’s a cool color (see glut of purple, above). Is it that it’s similar to green _and_ a cool color? > > Also, if I have a thread that’s part MPSIMSy, part Pit-ish, and has a GQ-type question side topic, where do I put it? 😕 My theory, which I have made up, and have nothing to back it with, is something about how most of the blue pigments in paints and dyes are highly toxic. I assume the same is true in the pigments of nature. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/14 "2009-05-17T21:22:55Z")
> [@Mallory](#): > > What about [chicory?](http://static.open.salon.com/files/chicory1233010763.jpg) Granted, it’s considered a weed, but the flowers are about the bluest I’ve seen. I’d call chicory closer to periwinkle blue, which is slightly toward the purple end of the spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/15 "2009-05-17T21:30:48Z")
[Lobelia](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Lobelia_(aka).jpg) comes in some pretty good shades of [blue](https://www.veseys.com/us/en/images/products/large/580.jpg). I understand from an American mate that they are not a common garden flower in the US which I found surprising as they are a staple in the British garden. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/16 "2009-05-17T21:57:23Z")
From the language side of the issue, not biology, they _are_ blue. Or rather, they were. English has been periodically adding color words for centuries. _Orange_, for example, has always existed, but in Old English there was no specific word for it. They could describe it, presumably by saying “yellowish red” or something, and they could no doubt recognize it, but it would have been a subset of either red or yellow. _Purple_ is a Latin borrowing (albeit a very old one), and _violet_ a medieval borrowing. So before we had specific vocabulary for that color, my guess is that it would have fallen under the “blue” range. So think of “violets are blue” as a delightfully archaic sense of the word “blue” rather than flat-out wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/17 "2009-05-17T22:09:20Z")
This one of my major gardening peeves too. Call them purple not blue. I mean blue when I ask for blue. Blue: The rare blue poppy. forget-me-not Bachelor button lobella morning glory bush morning glory Blue flax iris Nigella delphinium lilac bluebells violet hydrangea Now if you ask for blue in these varieties you’ll still likely get sold a purple one.:mad: ---
**Author:** ![Mallory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mallory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallory)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/18 "2009-05-17T22:24:13Z")
> [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#): > > [Lobelia](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Lobelia_(aka).jpg) comes in some pretty good shades of [blue](https://www.veseys.com/us/en/images/products/large/580.jpg). I understand from an American mate that they are not a common garden flower in the US which I found surprising as they are a staple in the British garden. Lobelia prefer cool summers, which aren’t common in most parts of the US. You _can_ grow them in warm summer areas, but they can get ratty looking after a while. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/19 "2009-05-17T22:27:52Z")
> [@Mallory](#): > > Lobelia prefer cool summers, which aren’t common in most parts of the US. You _can_ grow them in warm summer areas, but they can get ratty looking after a while. They do good in Wisconsin for most of the season. ---
**Author:** ![Peanuthead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peanuthead/32/360_2.png) [@Peanuthead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanuthead)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770/20 "2009-05-18T02:02:15Z")
_Roses are red and violets are purple Sugar is sweet and so’s maple syrple._ - Roger Miller- [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-violets-are-blue-fallacy/496770.md?page=2)