# The virtues of a $10/hour minimum wage **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021 "2016-04-24T20:40:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/1 "2016-04-24T20:40:54Z")
I think a $10/hour minimum wage would have three good things going for it: First of all, a $15/hour minimum wage isn’t going to pass. Not enough bipartisan popular support. But a $10/hour minimum wage is much more supportable. Second, it’s extremely easy to calculate, mathematically. You worked five hours? You get paid $50. You work eight hours? You get paid $80. Short of a $1/hour minimum wage, it’s the easiest minimum wage to be calculated that could be implemented. Third, it wouldn’t drive up unemployment, or raise product prices, as much as a $15/hour minimum wage would. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/2 "2016-04-24T20:50:48Z")
I agree. What on earth would anyone do with that extra $5 an hour anyway? They’d probably pay more taxes, and if they got paid in cash there’d have to be some 5s mixed in with the 10s and 20s. I can’t believe those people aren’t happy with the nice round number they get now. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/3 "2016-04-24T21:03:48Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > First of all, a $15/hour minimum wage isn’t going to pass. Not enough bipartisan popular support. But a $10/hour minimum wage is much more supportable. A $15 minimum wage has already passed in a few localities. While I agree a $15 federal minimum wage is unlikely to pass at this point, I think we could probably do better than $10. > [@Velocity](#): > > Second, it’s extremely easy to calculate, mathematically. You worked five hours? You get paid $50. You work eight hours? You get paid $80. Short of a $1/hour minimum wage, it’s the easiest minimum wage to be calculated that could be implemented. Well, you still have to pay various taxes, and such things are mostly computerized, so no wage is going to be much easier to calculate. Ten dollars per hour doesn’t mean the employer or the employee can just assume that even amount is their cost/take home pay. Further, the number of people literally making minimum wage is just a subset of lower-wage workers who would likely be affected by a higher minimum wage. > [@Velocity](#): > > Third, it wouldn’t drive up unemployment, or raise product prices, as much as a $15/hour minimum wage would. Likely true, but it’s really hard to quantify such things with any certainty. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/4 "2016-04-24T21:50:18Z")
Raising the minimum wage any amount will result in raising unemployment. For example a current minimum wage in NH is $7.25. Your proposal raises that by 39% to $10 per hour you suggested. That is a substantial amount and many will not see the increase in their check. They will see the exit door and head to the unemployment line. Not exactly what you seek. Also many financial illiterates do not take into the account the labor burden. The $10 you propose is not the cost to the employer. There is SS tax, unemployment tax, etc that is on top of that. Your proposal effectively raises all those taxes also. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/5 "2016-04-24T22:22:46Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Raising the minimum wage any amount will result in raising unemployment. What is your reasoning for that? It’s hardly a measurable effect. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/6 "2016-04-24T23:22:38Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > What is your reasoning for that? It’s hardly a measurable effect. My reasoning for that is Economics 101. Raise the price of any goods or service will reduced the demand for that product or service. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/7 "2016-04-25T00:43:30Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > My reasoning for that is Economics 101. Raise the price of any goods or service will reduced the demand for that product or service. But as a hard and fast rule with no exceptions, that is demonstrably false. Obvious counter example include things like college, Birken bags, bus travel, Hamilton tickets, etc. ---
**Author:** ![erocked](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f08c70/32.png) [@erocked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erocked)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/8 "2016-04-25T01:40:06Z")
I agree with raising the minimum wage, however I would tie minimum wage to inflation. Every year the new minimum wage would change. Any company that cannot comply doesn’t deserve to exist. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/9 "2016-04-25T01:48:29Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > My reasoning for that is Economics 101. Raise the price of any goods or service will reduced the demand for that product or service. Perhaps you should consider retaking the course, because I doubt it is a part of any Econ 101 course out there that > [@davida03801](#): > > Raising the minimum wage any amount will result in raising unemployment. . It certainly isn’t something you can find a cite for in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/10 "2016-04-25T02:06:04Z")
> [@erocked](#): > > I agree with raising the minimum wage, however I would tie minimum wage to inflation. Every year the new minimum wage would change. Any company that cannot comply doesn’t deserve to exist. Tieing it to inflation is more important to what number it gets raised to, so that low wage workers aren’t tied to the vicissitudes of the current political climate. I’d support a $10 inflation adjusted MW over a $15 MW. ---
**Author:** ![ziper1221](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a183cd/32.png) [@ziper1221](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ziper1221)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/11 "2016-04-25T02:40:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Perhaps you should consider retaking the course, because I doubt it is a part of any Econ 101 course out there that . It certainly isn’t something you can find a cite for in real life. Are you kidding me? Do you think raising minimum wage just creates wealth? It eliminates anyone who can only provide labor that is worth less than the minimum wage from getting a job. A price floor causes there to be a surplus of workers, that is, unemployment. Are you denying the most basic of supply of and demand? Now, finding data for this is almost pointless, because it is impossible to run an isolated test, and there are so many co-factors that you can manipulate the data to show whatever result you want. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/12 "2016-04-25T02:58:17Z")
> [@](#): > > I agree with raising the minimum wage, however I would tie minimum wage to inflation. and also to local costs of living. It may make a lot of sense to have a $15/hour minimum wage in expensive areas like San Francisco and New York, but here in the backwaters of nowhere it does not. All that will happen is a lot of small businesses will go under due to not being able to pay workers and jobs will be lost. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/13 "2016-04-25T03:03:13Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I think a $10/hour minimum wage would have three good things going for it: > First of all, a $15/hour minimum wage isn’t going to pass. Not enough bipartisan popular support. But a $10/hour minimum wage is much more supportable. > > Second, it’s extremely easy to calculate, mathematically. You worked five hours? You get paid $50. You work eight hours? You get paid $80. Short of a $1/hour minimum wage, it’s the easiest minimum wage to be calculated that could be implemented. > > Third, it wouldn’t drive up unemployment, or raise product prices, as much as a $15/hour minimum wage would. [ol] [li]Legislative ease doesn’t really tell us much about what wage is better than another. A $0.25 increase might even be easier. Is that better?[/li][li]Does anyone care about ease of calculating wages? I’m not sure many $11/hour earners would rather earn $10/hour. We’re talking about \<15% of the US workforce anyway, so most people’s wages won’t suddenly be easier to calculate.[/li][li]Probably, but we’d need to know more about the price elasticity of demand for labor in this wage region. Given that we’ve had (real) minimum wages around $10 before, I think it’s relatively safe to say that’s unlikely to send us circling down the drain. But models for $15 are going to be more speculative. You really want a full cost benefit analysis against the status quo and other plans that might better address your goals.[/li][/ol]On that last note, what are your goals for the increase? It’s hard to measure the virtues of inputs without knowing the desired outputs. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/14 "2016-04-25T03:07:11Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > My reasoning for that is Economics 101. Raise the price of any goods or service will reduced the demand for that product or service. I disagree. Employers need a fixed amount of labor. They aren’t keeping anyone on the payroll out of the goodness of their hearts, they keep them on the payroll because they need them. Paying them more will cause them to suffer a minimal reduction in their profit margins, or minor raises in prices of their products, neither of which will bring about the zombie apocalypse that conservatives predict. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/15 "2016-04-25T03:09:00Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > and also to local costs of living. It may make a lot of sense to have a $15/hour minimum wage in expensive areas like San Francisco and New York, but here in the backwaters of nowhere it does not. All that will happen is a lot of small businesses will go under due to not being able to pay workers and jobs will be lost. We had a thread about tying something…wage floors or benefits or something, to cost of living. We got stuck on what sort of geographical granularity would be appropriate. Manhattan is expensive, yes, but most people who work there don’t live there. I had neighbors in southeastern PA who worked there, although I doubt for MW. So I don’t necessarily object to your suggestion, but there is some question of implementation. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/16 "2016-04-25T03:26:04Z")
> [@ziper1221](#): > > Are you kidding me? Do you think raising minimum wage just creates wealth? It eliminates anyone who can only provide labor that is worth less than the minimum wage from getting a job. A price floor causes there to be a surplus of workers, that is, unemployment. Are you denying the most basic of supply of and demand? > Now, finding data for this is almost pointless, because it is impossible to run an isolated test, and there are so many co-factors that you can manipulate the data to show whatever result you want. This is just a lot of loud bluster to make up for the fact that you can’t come up with stats that show that unemployment goes up when the minimum wage goes up. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/17 "2016-04-25T03:28:58Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > My reasoning for that is Economics 101. Raise the price of any goods or service will reduced the demand for that product or service. Well this is good news. Since inflation constantly erodes the value of minimum wage then it turns out we’ve been in a hiring boom my entire life. I’m amazed we had so many unemployed people that we haven’t run out by now. I assume we must be on the verge of 100% employment by now. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/18 "2016-04-25T03:31:49Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Employers need a fixed amount of labor. Nonsense. Have you ever employed people? I have never “need[ed] a fixed amount of labor,” nor have any of my employers. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/19 "2016-04-25T03:37:17Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > […]then it turns out we’ve been in a hiring boom my entire life. We have been. Or am I missing the whoosh here? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021/20 "2016-04-25T04:27:33Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > My reasoning for that is Economics 101. Raise the price of any goods or service will reduced the demand for that product or service. Although irrelevant here, when you finally get around to Econ 102 you’ll learn that two exceptions to this rule include _very cheap_ and _very expensive_ goods! As an example of the former consider a price rise in a carbohydrate staple like potatoes or rice. The price rise means poor people can no longer afford expensive foods like meat so they compensate by buying MORE rice — it’s still less expensive per calorie than an alternative. But I think even Econ 101 introduces concepts like inelasticity and its variability — McDonald’s will need to flip those burgers even at a higher cost. _In fact they’ll be flipping MORE burgers when the lowest paid can afford to eat out more often._ The precise effect of minimum wage hike on employment is complicated and uncertain but if you consult … [gasp] actual economists … I think you’ll find more support for the idea that such a hike would be stimulative than that unemployment would rise significantly. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-virtues-of-a-10-hour-minimum-wage/753021.md?page=2)