# The Vorkosigan Saga Discussion Thread (Progressive Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 26, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680 "2014-11-26T16:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/221 "2015-01-21T21:30:33Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > Sorry if I’m being dim – know what, about her? She’s Byerly’s ‘‘blind drop.’’ I’m not entirely sure what that means, but clearly she’s colluding with him and ImpSec. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/222 "2015-01-21T21:30:54Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > If Byerly Vorrutyer is in ImpSec, why doesn’t Miles know about it? Basically beaten to it by Baron Greenback… ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/223 "2015-01-21T21:31:30Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > If Byerly Vorrutyer is in ImpSec, why doesn’t Miles know about it? > > Likewise, does Illyan know about Lady Alys? My impression is that _Illyan_ knows pretty much everything (and is presumably the conduit through which Lady Alys is passing on Byerly’s reports, although this isn’t spelled out), but otherwise, ImpSec’s left hand has a tendency not to know what its right hand is doing (and to be fair, given that lots of these people are deep-cover operatives, that’s probably a _good_ thing). ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/224 "2015-01-21T21:33:50Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > Basically beaten to it by Baron Greenback… And I was just thinking, actually, that Miles was never really that high-ranking at ImpSec, and all ImpSec stuff is probably ‘‘need to know’’ anyhow. However, Ivan did note that Miles seemed to have an irrational trust in Byerly. So… you never know, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/225 "2015-01-21T21:39:27Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > She’s Byerly’s ‘‘blind drop.’’ > > I’m not entirely sure what that means, but clearly she’s colluding with him and ImpSec. Alys is the conduit from By to Gregor too. By holds rank in Impsec, but at the end of A Civil Campaign it’s the Emperor he reports to directly, not General Allegre. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/226 "2015-01-21T23:22:03Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > And I was just thinking, actually, that Miles was never really that high-ranking at ImpSec, and all ImpSec stuff is probably ‘‘need to know’’ anyhow. Also, Miles was an active field operative until his seizures benched him. He almost certainly wouldn’t be told any sensitive information that didn’t relate directly to whatever job he was working, in case he fell into enemy hands, particularly given that he doesn’t have the standard FastPenta allergy most agents in his position get. He wouldn’t start getting clued into the sensitive stuff until he was safely stashed behind a desk full time at ImpSec HQ. Also: “Mom, dad, I’d like you to meet _she’s getting away!_” ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/227 "2015-01-21T23:30:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > He almost certainly wouldn’t be told any sensitive information that didn’t relate directly to whatever job he was working, in case he fell into enemy hands, particularly given that he doesn’t have the standard FastPenta allergy most agents in his position get. Miles’s entirely non-standard reaction to FastPenta does yield a lot of data, but not perhaps a lot of information. > [@](#): > > “Mom, dad, I’d like you to meet _she’s getting away!_” A crowning moment of awesome 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/228 "2015-01-21T23:36:03Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Miles entirely non-standard reaction to FastPenta does yield a lot of data, but not perhaps a lot of information. True, but that was something they found out relatively late in his career, and probably not something they want to rely on for operational security. Plus, there’s no induced fatal allergy to having your fingernails pulled out with pliers. > [@](#): > > A crowning moment of awesome 😃 Yes! But probably not Miles’. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/229 "2015-01-21T23:56:12Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > A crowning moment of awesome 😃 That whole scene was a hoot, except for the part where Etkatarin was really hurt. I was like ‘‘HA HA HA HA HA Ohhhh…’’ ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/230 "2015-01-22T00:05:26Z")
I literally punched the air and whooped, in a most unlike-me fashion, at > [@](#): > > Ekaterin leaned forward, gripping the railing with her knuckles going pale. “Let’s finish this, Lord Vorkosigan!” > > Miles jerked in his seat, taken by surprise. “Madame?”. He made a little half-bow gesture. “Yours to command…”. > > “Good. Will you marry me?” Thing is, my reaction was earned by the author. Bujold’s ability to make the reader actually care about characters is rare enough in any fiction, and in my experience extremely rare in science fiction. I’m just glad I read that bit at home, and not on a bus or train. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/231 "2015-01-22T00:06:29Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > That whole scene was a hoot, except for the part where Etkatarin was really hurt. > > I was like ‘‘HA HA HA HA HA Ohhhh…’’ Well, yes. The aftermath was handled beautifully. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/232 "2015-01-22T01:05:49Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > My impression is that _Illyan_ knows pretty much everything (and is presumably the conduit through which Lady Alys is passing on Byerly’s reports, although this isn’t spelled out), but otherwise, ImpSec’s left hand has a tendency not to know what its right hand is doing (and to be fair, given that lots of these people are deep-cover operatives, that’s probably a _good_ thing). Besides, Miles dealt with Galactic affairs for ImpSec, while By covers internal Barrayaran affairs, so there’s no much reason for Miles to know about By. P.S. I loved Nikki making his call to Gregor. Surprise, Hugo and Vassily! ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/233 "2015-02-17T19:47:21Z")
**Spice Weasel** - have you finished all the books? StG ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/234 "2015-02-17T19:52:22Z")
Have I mentioned “Winterfair Gifts” the novella about Miles wedding? It’s available in an anthology called “Irresistible Forces.” ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/235 "2015-02-17T20:20:40Z")
**Andy** - It’s also available alone on Amazon as a Kidle story. StG ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/236 "2015-02-17T23:17:39Z")
Winterfair Gifts is also part of the Miles in Love anthology. Since the thread was started I went back and started reading the books in story timeline order. The only book that I read out of order before was the last book written, Captain Vorpatril’s Alliance. I am on the last book, Cryoburn, now. I did skip Ethan of Athos, Borders of Infinity, and most of the first half of Mirror Dance. I always find it interesting to see how certain ideas change over time. Two things I never noticed before kind of jumped out at me: 1. In the Vor Game, Miles mentions his mother’s involvement in fighting of Vordarian’s Pretendership, but the details are different from what is shown in Barrayar or how he and other characters describe it in later books. In Vor Game, Cordelia was said to have led troops and been in command of Gregor’s bodyguard. A massive stretching of events that didn’t make sense. 2. Fast-penta. Unless I missed something it first showed up in Mountains of Mourning, but it seems like it had been around for quite a while. It should probably have come up in Shards of Honor or possibly the Warrior’s apprentice. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/237 "2015-02-18T00:04:51Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > 1. Fast-penta. Unless I missed something it first showed up in Mountains of Mourning, but it seems like it had been around for quite a while. It should probably have come up in Shards of Honor or possibly the Warrior’s apprentice. In Shards of Honor Aral claims to have secretly interrogated Cordelia using drugs, and the Betans drug her with something to make her talk; either method could be a precursor or variant of fastpenta. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/238 "2015-02-18T00:08:24Z")
Yeah, now that I’ve finished the series I’ve started to re-read some of the ones I liked the best, and there are definitely a few little consistency hitches (though they’re not too bad, really, for a massive sprawling series written over a number of years). The one that amuses me is the way that the state of communications technology in any given book is _astonishingly_ similar to the state of real-world technology at the time the book was written, so that all of a sudden everyone in the last few books has a wristcom, which is clearly a cellphone by another name, and in the latest one characters are engaging in what is unmistakably _Google-stalking_ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/239 "2015-02-18T01:08:43Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > Yeah, now that I’ve finished the series I’ve started to re-read some of the ones I liked the best, and there are definitely a few little consistency hitches (though they’re not too bad, really, for a massive sprawling series written over a number of years). It can be jarring when you compare books that were written in one order but were set in a different order. _Borders of Infinity_ was written in 1987 and _Cetaganda_ was written in 1995. But the events in _Cetaganda_ were supposed to have taken place two years before the events in _Borders of Infinity_. The way Bujold portrayed the Cetangandans changed significantly between the writing of these two books. It’s not a major issue if you read them in the order they were published but it can be a surprise if you read them in chronological order. > [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > The one that amuses me is the way that the state of communications technology in any given book is _astonishingly_ similar to the state of real-world technology at the time the book was written, so that all of a sudden everyone in the last few books has a wristcom, which is clearly a cellphone by another name, and in the latest one characters are engaging in what is unmistakably _Google-stalking_ 🙂 It’s the Data effect. Sometimes science fiction has a hard time staying ahead of real science. Back in the late eighties, _Star Trek_ had a line about how fast Data’s positronic brain could operate. At the time, it was something like fifty thousand times faster than the best computer then in existence so it probably seemed like a safe extrapolation. But we now have computers that operate faster than Data’s brain supposedly will in the 24th century. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/240 "2015-03-08T00:09:28Z")
There’s gotta be more books coming right? it can’t possibly end with such a downer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680.md?page=13)