# The Vorkosigan Saga Discussion Thread (Progressive Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 26, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680 "2014-11-26T16:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/61 "2014-12-08T22:25:22Z")
Ha, now I’m flat-out happy for the unlikely coincidence, because it led to this book actually getting political-intriguey good again. The base commander is back! Oooh, he really has Vorkosigan over a barrel, now. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/62 "2014-12-09T04:16:21Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Ha, now I’m flat-out happy for the unlikely coincidence, because it led to this book actually getting political-intriguey good again. > > The base commander is back! Oooh, he really has Vorkosigan over a barrel, now. Over a barrel like Bre’r Rabbit is over that thorn bush … 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/63 "2014-12-10T19:03:21Z")
Just finished the Vor Game. Two moments that about killed me - 1. The hostage Gregor painting a picture of Miles as a scheming, traitorous madman for Cavilo’s benefit while Elena ducks out of view and laughs her ass off. 2. ‘‘Well, that helps with the insubordination problem.’’ (Upon promotion to Lieutenant.) This book fully redeemed itself. On to Cetaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/64 "2014-12-10T19:15:58Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Just finished the Vor Game. > > Two moments that about killed me - > > 1. The hostage Gregor painting a picture of Miles as a scheming, traitorous madman for Cavilo’s benefit while Elena ducks out of view and laughs her ass off. Yeah, that’s the scene I was thinking of in post #40 [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17953037&postcount=40](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17953037&postcount=40) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/65 "2014-12-10T20:50:39Z")
One of the things I love about _The Vor Game_ (and which i didn’t quite pick up on in my first read through) is that, at this point in history, everyone in the region basically thinks of Barrayar as Space Nazis, and Aral Vorkosigan as Hitler with a plasma gun. Reading with that in mind, it makes the scene where he shows up with the Barrayaran fleet in tow to rescue the entire Hegen Hub, which is already pretty good, absolutely fantastic. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/66 "2014-12-10T21:12:05Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Just finished the Vor Game. > > Two moments that about killed me - > > 1. The hostage Gregor painting a picture of Miles as a scheming, traitorous madman for Cavilo’s benefit while Elena ducks out of view and laughs her ass off. Hah, yes, that’s one of my favorite scenes in the series. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/67 "2014-12-11T06:14:29Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Just finished the Vor Game. > > Two moments that about killed me - > > 1. The hostage Gregor painting a picture of Miles as a scheming, traitorous madman for Cavilo’s benefit while Elena ducks out of view and laughs her ass off. > 2. ‘‘Well, that helps with the insubordination problem.’’ (Upon promotion to Lieutenant.) > [@Miller](#): > > One of the things I love about _The Vor Game_ (and which i didn’t quite pick up on in my first read through) is that, at this point in history, everyone in the region basically thinks of Barrayar as Space Nazis, and Aral Vorkosigan as Hitler with a plasma gun. Reading with that in mind, it makes the scene where he shows up with the Barrayaran fleet in tow to rescue the entire Hegen Hub, which is already pretty good, absolutely fantastic. Perhaps I should overcome the certain degree of aversion which I feel, and re-read _TVG_. There does seem to be plenty about it, that I’ve forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/68 "2014-12-11T15:16:10Z")
First two chapters down, and so far I’m loving Cetaganda (just finished the scene where the sculpture damn near roasted Miles’ feet.) A mystery is afoot! ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/69 "2014-12-11T15:24:21Z")
Meanwhile, my husband just finished the Vorrutyer chapter in Shards of Honor (which I am re-reading along with him.) ‘‘So… when they said Bothari was crazy, they meant actually mentally ill.’’ My dear, you have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/70 "2014-12-11T16:07:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > One of the things I love about _The Vor Game_ (and which i didn’t quite pick up on in my first read through) is that, at this point in history, everyone in the region basically thinks of Barrayar as Space Nazis, and Aral Vorkosigan as Hitler with a plasma gun. Reading with that in mind, it makes the scene where he shows up with the Barrayaran fleet in tow to rescue the entire Hegen Hub, which is already pretty good, absolutely fantastic. Screw it, the book is ancient … Lessee … Komarr let Cetaganda in to conquer Barrayar in exchange for trade concessions. Barrayar takes 20 years to kick the shit out of Cetaganda, one of the most powerful and advanced multplanet polities just after being rediscovered after 800 years of isolation and return to medieval tech when their wormhole access is closed on them without warning. Barrayar figures screw that and conquerors Komarr so they have control of their wormhole access to the Hegen Hub. When we first join the series in Shards of Honor and Barrayar, SoH has the parents of the protagonist meet up on a newly discovered terran type planet that her planet wants to colonize for peaceful reasons. His planet wants it as both a colony and as a staging area for a push into taking over Escobar [a Spanish based planetary polity] Her polity [Beta] decides to screw over Barrayar by helping the Escobarrans with a new tech. Book 2 is her coming to grips with living as an exile on Barrayar [she opted to leave Beta and marry Aral] So, in effect yes, Barrayar is seen as militaristic - though honestly, I would go kick the shit out of Komarr for letting Cetaganda invade me … and to get control of the only wormhole access point. Aral gets the name of The Butcher of Komarr because a political officer took advantage of a gathering of the planetary senate to massacre most of the senate and other officials - though Aral never ordered it, he was always accused of organizing it. [He did kill the political officer directly, himself … but it did give him that unfortunate nickname.] ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/71 "2014-12-11T16:46:22Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Aral gets the name of The Butcher of Komarr because a political officer took advantage of a gathering of the planetary senate to massacre most of the senate and other officials - though Aral never ordered it, he was always accused of organizing it. [He did kill the political officer directly, himself … but it did give him that unfortunate nickname.] I’ve always wondered about that. Keep in mind we’re used to seeing Aral Vorkosigan in his later life, after he’s settled down with Cordelia and mellowed out somewhat. Everyone, including Aral himself, has said he was a very different person when he was younger. So I’ve considered the possibility that the story about the political officer might be a lie. Maybe a younger more volatile Aral did order the killing of those prisoners and the political officer was killed to cover it up or for some other unrelated reason. And Bujold might be holding this in reserve. Miles has faced some huge challenges in his life but an even bigger one would be finding out that his father had been living a lie. If Bujold wants to knock Miles for a loop in some future book, she could have him learn the truth about his father’s past. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/72 "2014-12-11T18:10:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So I’ve considered the possibility that the story about the political officer might be a lie. Maybe a younger more volatile Aral did order the killing of those prisoners and the political officer was killed to cover it up or for some other unrelated reason. Barely possible, but it conflicts with the entire strategy of the Komarran annexation (as described in Warrior’s Apprentice). Note to the OP: When are you going to slip the collection “Borders of Infinity,” and the related novels “Ethan of Athos” and “Falling Free” into your reading schedule. You should definitely read “Borders of Infinity” before “Brothers in Arms,” and “Falling Free” before “Diplomatic Immunity.” “Ethan” occurs very nearly at the same time as Cetaganda if I recall correctly. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/73 "2014-12-11T18:36:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And Bujold might be holding this in reserve. Miles has faced some huge challenges in his life but an even bigger one would be finding out that his father had been living a lie. If Bujold wants to knock Miles for a loop in some future book, she could have him learn the truth about his father’s past. Not wanting to be a wet blanket; but I’ve seen it strongly suggested in the past few years, that the author has stated that as regards the “Vorkosiverse”, she feels pretty much “written-out” – \*Captain Vorpatrils’s Alliance \* likely the last in the series. I hope I’m wrong here ! ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/74 "2014-12-11T18:40:11Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > Not wanting to be a wet blanket; but I’ve seen it strongly suggested in the past few years, that the author has stated that as regards the “Vorkosiverse”, she feels pretty much “written-out” – \*Captain Vorpatrils’s Alliance \* likely the last in the series. I hope I’m wrong here ! I’m okay with that because I’m pretty sure I’d take it harder than Miles if Aral Vorkosigan lied. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/75 "2014-12-11T18:43:49Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Barely possible, but it conflicts with the entire strategy of the Komarran annexation (as described in Warrior’s Apprentice). > > Note to the OP: When are you going to slip the collection “Borders of Infinity,” and the related novels “Ethan of Athos” and “Falling Free” into your reading schedule. You should definitely read “Borders of Infinity” before “Brothers in Arms,” and “Falling Free” before “Diplomatic Immunity.” “Ethan” occurs very nearly at the same time as Cetaganda if I recall correctly. I’ll read Ethan of Athos next. ---
**Author:** ![danhanegan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb9ed0/32.png) [@danhanegan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danhanegan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/76 "2014-12-11T20:07:28Z")
What I can’t understand is why Hollywood hasn’t picked up the Vorkosiverse and started a movie series yet. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/77 "2014-12-11T20:10:25Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Screw it, the book is ancient … I’m not sure what your point is. As for Miles getting a shock about his dad… [spoiler] …I thought a good potential story, particularly after Miles became an Auditor, would be him uncovering evidence that someone sold out the Barrayaran military to the Escobarians, leading to the disastrous invasion. As finds more and more strands to the conspiracy, he finds they all lead back to his father and the dead Emperor Ezar, putting him in the position of either revealing his father’s treason, or joining in it through his own silence. Unfortunately, IIRC, in one of the books Miles mentions something that makes it apparent he already knows most of the story behind Escobar. [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/78 "2014-12-11T20:12:20Z")
> [@danhanegan](#): > > What I can’t understand is why Hollywood hasn’t picked up the Vorkosiverse and started a movie series yet. I’d prefer a TV series. Maybe they can lure Peter Dinklage away from Game of Thrones. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/79 "2014-12-11T20:18:02Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > Not wanting to be a wet blanket; but I’ve seen it strongly suggested in the past few years, that the author has stated that as regards the “Vorkosiverse”, she feels pretty much “written-out” – \*Captain Vorpatrils’s Alliance \* likely the last in the series. I hope I’m wrong here ! Apparently she’s not done yet. She’s working on a novella set in the Vorkosigan universe and some people have seen sections of it. But it’s been in the works long enough that she may have decided to expand it into a novel. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680/80 "2014-12-11T20:24:18Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > Not wanting to be a wet blanket; but I’ve seen it strongly suggested in the past few years, that the author has stated that as regards the “Vorkosiverse”, she feels pretty much “written-out” – \*Captain Vorpatrils’s Alliance \* likely the last in the series. I hope I’m wrong here ! > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Apparently she’s not done yet. She’s working on a novella set in the Vorkosigan universe and some people have seen sections of it. But it’s been in the works long enough that she may have decided to expand it into a novel. Hey, good news ! Am glad indeed, seemingly not to have had the rights of things, [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vorkosigan-saga-discussion-thread-progressive-spoilers/705680.md?page=5)