# The voter ID Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346 "2017-05-24T15:57:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/61 "2017-05-24T21:20:06Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > ID is required for the following: > > Buying alcohol, and cigarettes > Opening a bank account > Applying for food stamps, welfare, medicare, or social security > Applying for a job > Applying for unemployment > Renting or buying a house > Applying for a mortgage > Renting or buying a car > Getting on an airplane or Cruise ship > Getting married > Applying for a gun > Adopting a pet > Obtaining a hotel room > Applying for a hunting or fishing license > Purchasing a cell phone > Gambling > Donating blood > Obtaining prescription medicine > Buying an " M ’ Rated video game > Obtaining a credit card > Obtaining a permit to protest > > …One could list a dozen more. People have no problems showing identification ever day for these activities. > > So what’s the big deal about requiring a photo ID to vote? If you want fair elections, this would help, otherwise your going to get some voter fraud. Even if the fraud is less than 1%, that is enough to swing some local, state, and sometimes federal elections. I have not shown a voter registration card for the last 30+ years. I just walk in, show my DL, they open the book, I sign it, I vote. The idea that “some” people can’t get a picture ID is bullshit. Here’s a quick way to eliminate the hassle. Don’t require a picture ID. Instead, when you go to sign the book or whatever, you put your thumbprint down as well. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/62 "2017-05-24T21:27:18Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I have not shown a voter registration card for the last 30+ years. I just walk in, show my DL, they open the book, I sign it, I vote. The idea that “some” people can’t get a picture ID is bullshit. > > Here’s a quick way to eliminate the hassle. Don’t require a picture ID. Instead, when you go to sign the book or whatever, you put your thumbprint down as well. I would absolutely favor the thumbprint. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/63 "2017-05-24T21:32:31Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Is there a reason, do you think, that other avenues of voter fraud, like absentee ballots, are not being addressed by republicans concerned about election integrity? WAG: because one of the largest, if not the largest, groups that tend to use absentee ballots is “people in the military”. And [people in the military generally vote Republican](http://swampland.time.com/2012/11/05/does-the-military-vote-really-lean-republican/). For one reason, Republican candidates and administrations spend a lot of money on the military. Also, military people tend to respect other people who have served, which also largely means Republicans. > [@Slash1972](#): > > If someone doesn’t have an ID, how can their name not match their birth certificate? Can’t the ID just have the name on their birth certificate? My wife’s name doesn’t match her birth certificate, because she took my last name when we got married. My brother’s wife didn’t get any kind of ID until she was in her 30s, because she was the youngest of nine kids and always had someone to take her where she wanted to go. She finally got her driver’s license after she had kids, just in case of emergencies. So, people should get an ID with the name on their birth certificate, even if it’s a name they don’t use? We should have a population walking around with government-issued IDs that don’t reflect who they actually are? Sounds like a recipe for fraud… My own daughter, by the way, doesn’t have a birth certificate, because she was born in China and left at an orphanage. We have a Certificate of Citizenship and a Social Security card for her, and we’ve almost completed the process to get a US birth certificate for her, but it cost close to $300 and required filing some court documents, which would have cost more if I’d had to hire an attorney. Getting a birth certificate isn’t a fast an easy process for everyone. > [@Silver\_lining](#): > > If they can show up in person on election day, they can show up for a free photo. Actually, a lot of them do early voting, say, in the evening at the supermarket. Of course, [Republicans are working to reduce early voting as well](http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/north-carolina-gop-out-limit-crucial-early-voting-period-n633571). As for election day voting, I remember back when I lived in New Mexico that my parents each got two hours off work on election day to go vote, which I believe was state law at the time, not sure if it still is. Still, it was at least something. But employers aren’t required to give you time off to get an ID, and poorer people just can’t afford to take unpaid leave. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/64 "2017-05-24T21:37:51Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Here’s a quick way to eliminate the hassle. Don’t require a picture ID. Instead, when you go to sign the book or whatever, you put your thumbprint down as well. > [@Bricker](#): > > I would absolutely favor the thumbprint. So, what, you’re going to go back after every election and compare the fingerprints to make sure no two of them match? Meh, let’s just use [election ink](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_ink). Low tech and cheap. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/65 "2017-05-25T11:51:23Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > So, what, you’re going to go back after every election and compare the fingerprints to make sure no two of them match? > > Meh, let’s just use [election ink](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_ink). Low tech and cheap. The election ink is a good solution to preventing double voting. The thumbprint provides a great way to provide evidence that a particular person was the person who voted; two different issues. Using election ink to take the thumbprint solves both issues in one step, would cost the voter nothing, and would provide the electoral integrity that ID proponents say they are looking for. Seems like a winning proposal to me. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/66 "2017-05-25T12:19:31Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > My wife’s name doesn’t match her birth certificate, because she took my last name when we got married You mean her birth certificate doesn’t match her ID? > [@](#): > > As for election day voting, I remember back when I lived in New Mexico that my parents each got two hours off work on election day to go vote, which I believe was state law at the time, not sure if it still is Did they get paid for those two hours? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/67 "2017-05-25T12:20:33Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > They provide me with mail that shows their current mailing address. This seems like you are enabling the massive amounts of couch-surfing fraud that are occurring! ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/68 "2017-05-25T14:20:29Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > You mean her birth certificate doesn’t match her ID? Both are true, actually. She now has my last name, which is on her ID, and of course that name is not the same name that is on her birth certificate. > [@](#): > > Did they get paid for those two hours? I believe they did, yes. Being that I was twelve, and they didn’t come to me for financial advice much, I can’t be certain. Of course, now that I look for it, [here’s a cite](http://www.hrlegalist.com/2016/04/decision-2016-do-employees-get-time-off-to-vote/): > [@](#): > > **New Mexico** > > Employees are entitled to up to two hours of voting leave. The employer may specify the hours during which an employee can be absent. An employer is not required to provide voting leave if the employee’s shift begins at least two hours after the polls open or ends at least three hours before the polls close. Although the statute does not specify whether this leave must be paid, it states that an employer may not penalize an employee for the absence. N.M. Stat. 178 § 1-12-42. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/69 "2017-05-25T14:33:17Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This seems like you are enabling the massive amounts of couch-surfing fraud that are occurring! I don’t know that I’ve ever taken anyone in that was on assistance, it was always a short term thing to help them get back on their feet. It’s possible that some were receiving some kind of benefit, but I didn’t ask, and I am not sure I would have known if they were. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/70 "2017-05-25T14:59:29Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I don’t know that I’ve ever taken anyone in that was on assistance, it was always a short term thing to help them get back on their feet. It’s possible that some were receiving some kind of benefit, but I didn’t ask, and I am not sure I would have known if they were. Sorry, I guess I should have used the smiley tag. I meant people who actually weren’t your friends were just using your friends’ bills to get a free spot on your couch. Or something. I retract 🙂 (nothing to do with anything serious like assistance fraud or anything, that’s for sure) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/71 "2017-05-25T15:30:29Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > The election ink is a good solution to preventing double voting. The thumbprint provides a great way to provide evidence that a particular person was the person who voted; two different issues. > > Using election ink to take the thumbprint solves both issues in one step, would cost the voter nothing, and would provide the electoral integrity that ID proponents say they are looking for. Seems like a winning proposal to me. So we’d need everyone’s fingerprints on file? Maybe we could have the black helicopters watching over the polling stations too. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/72 "2017-05-25T15:40:34Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So we’d need everyone’s fingerprints on file? Maybe we could have the black helicopters watching over the polling stations too. 🙂 Why would you need everyone’s fingerprints on file? They aren’t comparing them at the polling place. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/73 "2017-05-25T16:38:36Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Why would you need everyone’s fingerprints on file? They aren’t comparing them at the polling place. But Cyros was suggesting it as a form of identification. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/74 "2017-05-25T16:43:47Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > But Cyros was suggesting it as a form of identification. He/she said this: > [@Cyros](#): > > The thumbprint provides a great way to provide evidence that a particular person was the person who voted It would be used for after-the-fact evidence in the case of voter fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/75 "2017-05-25T17:01:22Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Why would you need everyone’s fingerprints on file? They aren’t comparing them at the polling place. > [@CarnalK](#): > > But Cyros was suggesting it as a form of identification. > [@Slash1972](#): > > It would be used for after-the-fact evidence in the case of voter fraud. Thanks **manson1972**. The fingerprint would be for comparison in the event that someone was suspected of voting fraudulently. To paraphrase one of **Bricker** ’s refrains, it creates a record that more easily allows for conviction and, IMHO, does a better job than showing ID as it intimately connects the act of voter fraud to the voter. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/76 "2017-05-25T17:06:12Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > Thanks **manson1972**. The fingerprint would be for comparison in the event that someone was suspected of voting fraudulently. To paraphrase one of **Bricker** ’s refrains, it creates a record that more easily allows for conviction and, IMHO, does a better job than showing ID as it intimately connects the act of voter fraud to the voter. And it’s free to the voter, so there is no disenfranchisement of poor and minority voters. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/77 "2017-05-25T17:43:58Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > . . . How do these elderly people receive Social Security benefits, or see a doctor, or pick up prescriptions without an ID? . . . For prescriptions I usually only have to supply my birth date. In fact, my son can pick up my meds by using my birth date. Some listed medications require showing ID, but most don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/78 "2017-05-25T17:49:44Z")
I see no objection to the thumbprint issue except for people that don’t have them, but maybe they can do a toe-print. I doubt there’s a single elected Republican who would support that solution instead of Voter ID, however. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/79 "2017-05-25T18:13:41Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I doubt there’s a single elected Republican who would support that solution instead of Voter ID, however. True, but maybe people could offer the fingerprint idea as a rebuttal to photo ID to see what the reactions are as a way to expose true motives? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346/80 "2017-05-25T18:16:05Z")
Can I say that I’m a little creeped out by the idea of a massive government collection of fingerprint data? I mean, yes, they already have my name, age, birthdate, SSN, driver’s license #, and the serial number stamped on the underside of my soul, but can’t I keep a little tiny bit of private data to myself? Just a teeny tiny bit? Also, I think that the fingerprint thing is _also_ a solution looking for a problem. election ink alone should be enough to solve the fictional problem of widespread in-person voter fraud. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-voter-id-thread/787346.md?page=5)