Alabama’s requirements trouble me – IIRC, they offered free IDs, but closed tons of the ID issuing offices in majority non-white areas.
The North Carolina law that was struck down by the courts due to targeting African Americans greatly troubled me. IIRC, you supported those requirements, even though they were later struck down, and SCOTUS allowed the decision to stand.
Those are a few off the top of my head.
I don’t think I can respond to this in a manner that is both worthy and reasonable outside the pit.
My overarching approach to these laws is that I respect the process that enacts them. This process includes judicial review, as well as voter reaction to the laws. (And, indeed, I have long argued that any change to voting laws should be effective only after at least one intervening election, to allow the existing rules about voter qualification to effectively endorse any changes.)
With this in mind, I’m fine with North Carolina’s outcome. I supported the law, but I also supported the judicial review, and the decision by Roy Cooper (newly elected Democratic governor) to withdraw the appeal. The voters spoke; they elected Cooper, and one consequence of that was that the state decided to no longer appeal the Fourth Circuit’s decision.
Now, Alabama. There’s at least one permanent location in each county to obtain the free ID:
County Address Phone
Autauga
218 N. Court Street
Prattville, Alabama 36067-3041 (334) 358-6740
Baldwin
119 West 2nd St
Bay Minette, Alabama 36507 (251) 937-0229
Barbour
113 Court Street
Clayton, Alabama 36016 (334) 775-8579
(334) 687-1585
Barbour
303 E Broad Street, Room 108
Eufaula, Alabama 36027 (334) 687-1585
Bibb
8 Court Square W
Centreville, Alabama 35042 (205) 926-3102
Blount
220 Second Ave E Rm B-5
Oneonta, Alabama 35121 (205) 625-4182
Bullock
217 Prairie St N, Room 101
Union Springs, Alabama 36089-1659 (334) 738-5372
Butler
700 Court Sq Rm 8
Greenville, Alabama 36037-2308 (334) 382-5685
Calhoun
1702 Noble St, Ste 113
Anniston, Alabama 36201-3889 (256) 241-2930
(256) 237-3681
Chambers
18 Alabama Ave E Rm 101
LaFayette, Alabama 36862 (334) 864-4313
Chambers
610 S Gilmer Ave
Lanett, Alabama 36863 (334) 644-7781
Cherokee
260 Cedar Bluff Rd, Suite 106
Centre, Alabama 35960-1403 (256) 927-5336
Chilton
500 2nd Ave N Rm 119
Clanton, Alabama 35045 (205) 755-3820
Choctaw
117 S Mulberry Ave, Suite 1
Butler, Alabama 36904-2557 (205) 459-2531
Clarke
114 Court St
Grove Hill, Alabama 36451 (251) 275-3062
Clay
1 Courthouse Square, 1st Floor
Ashland, Alabama 36251 (256) 354-7815
Cleburne
120 Vickery Street, Room 103
Heflin, Alabama 36264-1166 (256) 463-5299
Coffee
6 County Complex
New Brockton, Alabama 36351-9791 (334) 894-5347
Colbert
201 N Main Street
Tuscumbia, Alabama 35674-2095 (256) 386-8535
Conecuh
200 Court Street, Room 224
Evergreen, Alabama 36401 (251) 578-7024
Coosa
9709 US Hwy 231
Rockford, Alabama 35136 (256) 377-2418
Covington
228 Hillcrest Drive
Andalusia, Alabama 36420-2570 (334) 428-2685
Crenshaw
29 S Glenwood Ave
Luverne, Alabama 36049 (334) 335-6568 Ext. 252
Cullman
500 2nd Ave SW, Suite 112
Cullman, Alabama 35055-4135 (256) 739-3530 Ext. 9
Dale
100 Court Square
Ozark, Alabama 36360 (334) 774-9038
Dallas
105 Lauderdale St Rm 122
Selma, Alabama 36701 (334) 874-2534
DeKalb
111 Grand Ave SW, Suite 105
Fort Payne, Alabama 35967 (256) 845-8598
Elmore
100 E Commerce Street, Room 205
Wetumpka, Alabama 36092-2746 (334) 567-1150
(334) 567-1197
Escambia
301 Belleville Ave Rm 204
Brewton, Alabama 36426 (251) 867-0243
Etowah
800 Forrest Ave, Suite 206
Gadsden, Alabama 35901-3651 (256) 549-5384
Fayette
103 First Ave NW, Suite 4
Fayette, Alabama 35555-2627 (205) 932-5432
Franklin
410 Jackson Ave North
Russellville, Alabama 35653 (256) 332-8849
Geneva
200 N. Commerce Street
Geneva, Alabama 36340 (334) 684-5655
Greene
110 Main Street
Eutaw, Alabama 35443 (205) 372-9669
Hale
905D Centerville Street
Greensboro, Alabama 36744-1536 (334) 624-4672
Henry
101 Court Square Ste K
Abbeville, Alabama 36310-2135 (334) 585-6080
Houston
462 N Oates
Dothan, Alabama 36303 (334) 677-4776
Jackson
102 E Laurel St
Scottsboro, Alabama 35768 (256) 574-9339
Jefferson
716 Richard Arrington Jr Blvd N, Ste A-410
Birmingham, Alabama 35203-0115 (205) 325-5550
Lamar
44690 Hwy 17
Vernon, Alabama 35592 (205) 695-6348
Lauderdale
200 South Court Street
Florence, Alabama 35630 (256) 760-5840
Lawrence
14451 Market Street Ste 340
Moulton, Alabama 35650 (256) 974-2460
Lee
215 S 9th St
Opelika, Alabama 36801 (334) 737-3635
Limestone
100 Clinton Street S., Suite E
Athens, Alabama 35611-2665 (256) 233-6405
Lowndes
205 Tuskeena St E Rm 101
Hayneville, Alabama 36040 (334) 548-2389
(334) 548-2080
Macon
101 Rosa Parks Ave Ste 100
Tuskegee, Alabama 36083-1735 (334) 724-2617
Madison
819 Cook Avenue, NW, Suite 150
Huntsville, Alabama 35801-5983 (256) 532-3510
Marengo
101 E Coats Ave
Linden, Alabama 36748 (334) 295-2249
Marion
132 Military Street South
Hamilton, Alabama 35570 (205) 921-3625
Marshall
424 Blount Ave Ste 106A
Guntersville, Alabama 35976-1122 (256) 571-7740
Mobile
151 Government St Ste 165
Mobile, Alabama 36602 (251) 574-8586
Monroe
65 N. Alabama Ave.
Monroeville, Alabama 36460 (251) 743-4107 Ext. 141
Montgomery
100 S Lawrence St.
Montgomery, Alabama 36104 (334) 832-1215
Morgan
302 Lee St NE
Decatur, Alabama 35601 (256) 351-4660
Perry
300 Washington Street Ste 102
Marion, Alabama 36756 (334) 683-2218
Pickens
155 Reform Street, Suite 303
Carrollton, Alabama 35447 (205) 367-2071
Pike
120 W Church Street, Room B2
Troy, Alabama 36081-1913 (334) 566-1757
Randolph
2 First Street NE
Wedowee, Alabama 36278 (256) 357-2138
Russell
1000 Broad St
Phenix City, Alabama 36867 (334) 298-1443
Shelby
108 W College Street Ste 100
Columbiana, Alabama 35051 (205) 669-3913
St. Clair
1815 Cogswell Ave Ste B-25
Pell City, Alabama 35125 (205) 338-3954
Sumter
311 S Washington St
Livingston, Alabama 35470 (205) 652-7902
Talladega
1 Courthouse Square
Talladega, Alabama 35160 (256) 761-2132
(256) 761-2131
Talladega
400 N Norton Avenue
Sylacauga, Alabama 35150-2010 (256) 249-1007
Tallapoosa
125 N Broadnax St Rm 20
Dadeville, Alabama 36853-1371 (256) 825-1081
Tuscaloosa
2501 7th St Ste 200
Tuscaloosa, Alabama 35401-1801 (205) 349-3870 Ext. 415
Walker
1803 3rd Ave Ste 109A
Jasper, Alabama 35501 (205) 384-7279
Washington
45 Court St.
Chatom, Alabama 36558 (251) 847-3255
Wilcox
219 Claiborne St
Camden, Alabama 36726 (334) 682-9753
Winston
11 Blake Dr Rm 3
Double Springs, Alabama 35553 (205) 489-3966
In addition, Alabama has mobile units that visit other locations to provide the IDs.
Alabama residents may provide the following forms of ID in order to get a Voter ID:
[ul]
[li]A student ID issued by a public or private high school[/li][li]A student or employee ID card issued by a private university or postgraduate technical or professional school located OUTSIDE the state of Alabama[/li][li]An employee ID card NOT issued by a branch, department, agency, or entity of the US government, the State of Alabama, or any county, municipality, board, authority, or entity of the State of Alabama[/li][li]Hospital/nursing home ID card[/li][li]Wholesale club or other membership card[/li][li]Birth Certificate [/li][li]Hospital or nursing home record[/li][li]Marriage Record [/li][li]State or Federal Census Record[/li][li]Military Record[/li][li]Medicare or Medicaid document[/li][li]Social Security Administration Document[/li][li]Certificate of Citizenship[/li][li]Official school record or transcript[/ul][/li]
I’m sorry, but I absolutely don’t share your concern that this scheme is unduly burdensome. And more importantly, I don’t believe that the vast majority of observers in the country would, either.
Some of those counties are pretty damn large and spread out in terms of their population. When most of the closings were in blacker areas of the state, and considering Alabama’s really terrible history on voting rights, skepticism seems entirely warranted.
I’m glad you’ve changed your mind on the NC laws. IIRC our discussions from about a year ago, you felt pretty differently than.
Not really.
What I was defending then was the process as much as the result. If the process in a given state results in the lack of any voter ID laws, I’m fine with that: it means that our representative democracy has spoken. I, myself, would favor a scheme slightly less tainted than North Carolina’s was, but I don’t regard my opinion - as brilliant as it always is - as a good substitute for representative democratic results.
However, I don’t see the same respect accorded to outcomes that favor Voter ID coming from man of my esteemed interlocutors.
See post #155 as of yet still unanswered. Seems like the Dems would rather bitch about Voter ID laws rather than going out and helping people get IDs.
When it comes to the same sorts of representative democratic processes that resulted in Jim Crow, segregation, and similar things (and based on the “targeting” of African American voters from this latest round, I think it qualifies as a lesser version of those oppressive policies), I would greatly prefer your opinion (or mine). Or even better, a DOJ that takes this stuff seriously and adheres to the spirit of the VRA, including the pre-clearance requirements, and a SCOTUS that doesn’t pretend racism is no longer significant in order to get rid of those requirements.
Whether or not some Democrats in office may be hypocritical doesn’t affect my position at all.
But this is my central point: while you may prefer it, your preferences can’t be the way we run the state, or the country, unless King II Andy IIII is to be crowned.
Maybe not but at least call them out for thier part in this (inaction in getting people IDs) like you call out the Pubs.
The political processes that allowed Jim Crow and segregation should be equally as anathema, IMO.
Okay: any Democrats who are being hypocritical and not trying to help people get IDs are wrong, and should stop being hypocritical, and start working to help voters get IDs.
Only after it was amended. Do you disagree with the necessity of that amendment? Your support for voter ID laws has been in the general. You ask others to cite specific laws, but you don’t want to make distinctions yourself.
Don’t you dare denigrate the Counselor’s grasp of specifics! Don’t you do it, nosir! Did you see that research he performed, that exhaustive list of county offices? Who else would go to that much trouble, track down each and every one like that? So, no one can say that counties in Alabama don’t have county offices, because they do! Each and every one! Boy, he sure nailed that one to the wall!
And what effort, what persistance, what dedication! Somebody else might have just found a list somewhere and tormented the hamsters by cutting and pasting it, as if it proved something! But not our Bricker, nosiree Bob! No such slapdash half-measures for a point so important, so definitive, so dispositive! When it comes to proving such a crucial point, he gets it done!
Wouldn’t it be more efficient to try to get the law struck down instead of trying to help citizens jump through the hoop the law creates? Besides, let’s say Democrats go all-out and throw maximum effort at getting IDs to as many citizens as possible, and the Republicans add another hoop-jump, i.e. “it turns out the IDs we specified were too easy to get and we heard a rumor about this guy somewhere who had a fake ID and might have affected an ultra-sooper-dooper-califragilooper-close election, so now we’re adding an extra requirement, in the name of voter confidence.”
Of course, if the voters keep returning these guys to office, my sympathy for the voters begins to wane.
Can we take a moment to gasp with wonder and admiration at the work undertaken by the Presidential Commission on voter integrity? A moment should be all we will need.
Alas, no. Oopsy-daisy! No, there isn’t. Because “Kansas City” Kurt Knoblick can’t read. The election laws of the Grunt State don’t say what he thinks it says. Darn! So close!
Well, then, where did those buses come from? There are only a few companies that rent out buses for long tours and such, how hard would it have been to contact them, even just the ones in Massachusetts? Check the records for buses rented on New Hampshire election day. You might wonder why they didn’t. You may. Or you can assume that they already knew it never happened, and just hoped to get away with it. Or that they are stupid. Or think we are.
And while we’re about it, anybody believe this thunderstorm of bullshit? That three to five million illegal votes account for HRC’s popular vote win? Don’t be afraid, don’t hold back, step right up and declare “I believe it, and I would lose a game of tic-tac-toe to a chicken!”
(Not actually asking Bricker, pretty sure the boy ain’t that dumb. Nobody could create such complex rationalizations as he without a keen mind honed by a Jesuit education!)
And they are not done, not by a long shot! Who knows what revelations may be presented, as soon as they hire somebody who can read!
We wait with bated breath, and “the calm confidence of a Methodist with four aces”.
Nope and I’ll tell you why. As I have said repeatedly in these threads, photo ID (especially given the Patriot Act) is practically a requirement these days. A responsible government (I’m thinking at the county level) should be helping all of its residents photo ID for everyday purposes. I also believe that we live in 2017 and that we should not be using antiquated methods for establishing identities. Why can’t my current county access records from other counties such as birth, marriage, property ownership, voting records, etc.
Secondly, the law itself is not a bad law. There are others that are far worst. You don’t have to prove citizenship so theoretically every illegal immigrant 18 or older could pinky-promise tomorrow they are citizens and register to vote. In Washington State, a poll worker can mark a ballot indicating how they think the voter [del]should have[/del] voted. There is evidence that Democratic poll workers in King County gave the governorship to Christine Gregoire by defacing ballots yet I didn’t here Dems yelling about fundamental voting rights and stolen elections and election fraud then.
So no, when counties get steamrolled by voting machine manufacturers and accept hackable machines with no paper trail, when I myself have experience going to my polling place and seeing someone who has already signed in as me and voted as me, when we have DoTs working on streets in urban areas on election day, when we have an absentee ballot system with no verification other than a signature (not even a PIN system) then I can’t really get worked up about 97 year-old Yvonne in the bayou who can’t make it to the Gumbo Parish county seat with her family Bible and two utility bills for her free ID.
Colorado is worse. You have to go to your local county office to do anything involving cars or licenses or ID. Yesterday it took me 1 hour 50 minutes to get there from work to register my car and I made it with 6 minutes to spare. Anyone who has a 9-5 M-F hourly job (don’t work? you don’t get paid) who lives in a different county is completely fucked.
Proof? That’s where the proof goes, right after the dots. Usually a link, something like that. You got, you bring.
Whatever law you care to imagine. Since this business of illegal voting being an issue worth worrying about is a phantom, all that’s needed is for right-wing worrywarts to be told everything’s fine now and they can vote in what you deem to be the appropriate emotional state.