# The (vulgur) American Canon in Films **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 19, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658 "2010-04-19T20:02:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/21 "2010-04-20T02:04:35Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > _American Pie_. Teenage sex comedies of that sort are very American. _Porky’s_ might fit for that one, too. Technically, that’s a vulgar Canadian film. If the friend is at all interested in technical stuff, I’d recommend _WarGames_. It’ll give some dimension to the Cold War fears that many Americans over 30 still remember. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/22 "2010-04-20T02:38:10Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > Sure, if you’re looking for a canon of movies made in/by Americans. But the question is “what are the top films that you think that any red blooded American should have _seen_” - and by that standard, it doesn’t matter if the movie in question is British, if it’s iconic enough! Exactly. I didn’t offer the movie, I simply explained why someone may see it as such. I would like to offer the Peanuts specials from the 60s. Made for TV. NOT the later ones, only the ones from the 60s. Something about that Charlie Brown fellow and all those around him. Especially the Christmas special. Plus that incredible music! VGT’s Linus and Lucy track is stuck in many people’s minds forever since seeing the Peanuts gang on TV. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/23 "2010-04-20T02:45:54Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Plus that incredible music! VGT’s Linus and Lucy track is stuck in many people’s minds forever since seeing the Peanuts gang on TV. Or at the cinema. Or on reruns in the 70s Or on VHS in the 80s Or on DVD in the 90s Or on Hulu or whatever you kids are using now. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/24 "2010-04-20T02:48:54Z")
Back to the Future. The first one, at least. Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle. My Cousin Vinny. The Karate Kid. The Rocky movies, at least the first three. Smokey and the Bandit. Several of the Star Trek movies. At least II, III, IV, and IV, Generations, First Contact, and the recent one by JJ Abrams. Platoon. Full Metal Jacket. Wall Street. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. ---
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/25 "2010-04-20T02:53:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s great. It’s still not part of the canon of American film, any more than William Shakespeare is a part of the canon of American literature. William Shakespeare is very much a part of America. Not “American Literature” but American nonetheless. Shakespeare wrote plays, and play are (IMHO) primarily about being _performed_ and the works of William Shakespeare have been performed countless times in the United States and were often quite popular. I don’t really think that the plays of Shakespeare are a paragon of what the OP was looking for–or even really what the OP was looking for at all, but I do think that there’s a case to be made for Shakespeare as an important part of the American experience. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/26 "2010-04-20T03:16:43Z")
Death Wish The Magnificent Seven Saving Private Ryan The Big Chill Billy Jack Walking Tall (1973) Rambo ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/27 "2010-04-20T03:32:28Z")
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. Big stars whom your friend must know about, politics, the importance of the noble lie and the little guy standing up. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/28 "2010-04-20T03:36:01Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > The OP actually says the American canon in films, not the canon of American films. It’s arguably the same thing, but the former phrasing does leave open some possibility that the films might not themselves be American. I wouldn’t say it’s impossible for a foreign film to be “essential to the American experience” or one of “the top films that you think that any red blooded American should have seen”, although admittedly I can’t think of many foreign films that would qualify. I could see an argument made that a foreign film about America could be considered part of the American canon. I suppose it depends on how you define “American canon.” If you approach it as, “Major works created primarily by Americans, for American audiences,” (which, I think, would be the traditional definition) then Monty Python is right out. It’s no more than 1/6th American at best, and was never conceived as something that would appeal to American audiences. On the other hand, if you define it as, “Major works that are about America, American ideals, or describe the experience of being in a particular time and place in American history,” then Monty Python is _still_ out, because there’s almost nothing in Monty Python that’s “about” America. It was popular in America. It influenced American comedy. It had an American in it. But it was _about_ the United Kingdom. Or, I suppose, you could just describe it as, “Stuff that’s popular in America.” But that’s not nearly as interesting a question, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/29 "2010-04-20T04:53:45Z")
Raiders of the Lost Ark Fight Club Lonesome Dove Batman (1989) Revenge of the Nerds Die Hard Aliens A Christmas Story ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/30 "2010-04-20T04:56:36Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > **ShibbOleth** , it would probably save time if you could tell us flat out if you want us to limit our suggestions to American films. FTR, I like the suggestion of Monty Python and the Holy Grail, as it is key to a subset of Americana of which many of us are a part. OTOH, I don’t think that it defines Americans as a group - many people just haven’t been exposed to it. So while I would include it as a possibility (and hence, not ban foreign films per se), I would probably not include it in a final list. I also think that MP & THG will be about as close as a foreign American films would come. What I’m looking for are films that are essential to the American experience, so my title could be better. I wouldn’t be surprised if MP & THG was more popular in the USA than England (although this is said without a clue as to the data). The Mad Max movies might be another example, especially the later ones that became less Australian. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/31 "2010-04-20T06:00:18Z")
American Pie The American President American Beauty ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/32 "2010-04-20T06:56:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I could see an argument made that a foreign film about America could be considered part of the American canon. I suppose it depends on how you define “American canon.” If you approach it as, “Major works created primarily by Americans, for American audiences,” (which, I think, would be the traditional definition) then Monty Python is right out. It’s no more than 1/6th American at best, and was never conceived as something that would appeal to American audiences. > > On the other hand, if you define it as, “Major works that are about America, American ideals, or describe the experience of being in a particular time and place in American history,” then Monty Python is _still_ out, because there’s almost nothing in Monty Python that’s “about” America. It was popular in America. It influenced American comedy. It had an American in it. But it was _about_ the United Kingdom. > > Or, I suppose, you could just describe it as, “Stuff that’s popular in America.” But that’s not nearly as interesting a question, IMO. Let’s check the OP (and not get pedantically focused on the title): > [@](#): > > Note that they do not need to be good films, just iconic movies that you and most of your friends have seen, can quote from, etc. > [@](#): > > So, help a future American out - what are the top films that you think that any red blooded American should have seen. Or at least which films you think someone should know about before they sit for the citizenship test. Your question may be more interesting, but it isn’t what he’s asking. He wants to know what films an American would find it important to have watched. And, to this day, a lot of Americans reference their humor, as if they expect you to be familiar with the show. That means it’s important. It has nothing to do with popularity–it has to do with what movies you think people SHOULD see. Something foreign that becomes that popular is probably important to see, even if just to help you figure out what Americans appreciate about the foreign work. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/33 "2010-04-20T07:58:02Z")
Lot of good choices; much has already been covered. Except for the horror genre. At the very least give him a foundation: Halloween (the original) Friday the 13th (the original) Nightmare on Elm Street (the original) Poltergeist An American Werewolf in London Regarding the Monty Python discussion, I’ve heard it said that Life of Brian was England’s favorite while Holy Grail was America’s, so in that respect Holy Grail is a pretty good choice. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/34 "2010-04-20T08:59:56Z")
_The Maltese Falcon_—he must learn of Film Noir, to be a Real Amurrican. ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/35 "2010-04-20T12:33:48Z")
The Big Lebowski. Or any of the Coen brothers movies…Fargo, O Brother, Where Art Thou. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/36 "2010-04-20T13:42:33Z")
> [@Oni no Maggie](#): > > Monty Python. Especially Holy Grail and The Life of Brian. > [@Miller](#): > > As examples of the _American_ canon? It was (half) directed by an American… then again, I think of most of Hitchcock’s movies as American. 😕 I think some Will Smith films, especially _Bad Boys_ or the like, more Tom Cruise, like _Gerry McGuire_ or _A Few Good Men_, _Saturday Night Fever_, _Grease_, James Dean, Brando, Beatty, some musicals (_Anchors Aweigh_? _Guys and Dolls_? _West Side Story_? _Paint Your Wagon_? I’m not sure…). _Boyz 'n tha Hood_, _Summer of Sam_, _Do the Right Thing_. _Porkys_. _Animal House_. The first two National Lampoon movies. Mel Brooks, esp. _Young Frankenstein_. The American take on martial arts films, like _Best of the Best_, _Karate Kid_, _The Last Dragon_ _Cannonball Run_. _Smokey & The Bandit_. _Every Which Way But Loose_. _Dirty Harry_. _Firefox_. Disney movies/TV that aren’t cartoons, like _Blackbeard’s Ghost_, _The Love Bug_, _20 000 Leagues_, _Davy Crockett_, _Darby O’Gill_, _Old Yeller_ ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/37 "2010-04-20T14:13:42Z")
_The Apartment_: sex, corporate greed, and the little guy. _Scarface_. I’d go with the original, but I’m like that. _Broadcast News_ _Wall Street_: Yuppies suck _The Big Chill_: Yuppies don’t suck _Mr. Mom_: Unemployment makes you adjust _Tootsie_: Unemployment makes you _really_ adjust _American Graffiti_ _Beach Blanket Bingo_ or another beach movie _To Kill a Mockingbird_ ETA: _Wall Street_ and _American Graffiti_ were already mentioned. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/38 "2010-04-22T21:04:29Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > I have a colleague who is an Indian national, living in the USA for several years, who would like to eventually become an American. At dinner tonight, I realized that he doesn’t have a true sense of what that means. So I proposed to make him a list of films to add to his Netflix queue. > > Now, to be clear, I’m not talking about stuff like _Gone With The Wind_, _Casablanca_ or _Citizen Kane_. Most people know about those, and many Americans have gotten by just fine without seeing them. I’m looking for stuff more along the lines of _Star Wars_ (at least the first three), _Caddyshack_, _Ferris Bueller’s Day Off_, etc. Note that they do not need to be good films, just iconic movies that you and most of your friends have seen, can quote from, etc. Lowbrow is welcome here, but so are good films if they’re essential to the American experience. > > So, help a future American out - what are the top films that you think that any red blooded American should have seen. Or at least which films you think someone should know about before they sit for the citizenship test. > Yes, I am interested in corrupting future generations, why do you ask? Top Gun. Brian’s Song. Death Wish I. The Untouchables. The Dirty Dozen. Old Yeller. Pulp Fiction. Glengarry Glen Ross. Grumpy Old Men. The Blues Brothers. Happy Gilmore. The Godfather I and II only. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/39 "2010-04-22T21:13:19Z")
BTW, I checked and this fellow is 32 years old, so I’ll probably skip some of the older stuff and focus on the types of things a similar 32 year old American would have experienced, to the extent I can do that given my own generational bias. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658/40 "2010-04-22T21:26:37Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s great. It’s still not part of the canon of American film, any more than William Shakespeare is a part of the canon of American literature. I would argue that those _are_ both part of the American canon. Most Americans have seen the MP movies and most Americans were forced to study/bef amiliar with the works of Shakespeare. At the very least he would need a passing familiarity with Hamlet, MacBeth and Romeo and Juliet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vulgur-american-canon-in-films/536658.md?page=3)