# The VW Volkswagon Emissions Scandal - longer and deeper than first thought **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 10, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063 "2015-12-10T11:37:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/81 "2016-11-22T14:57:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I see what you mean. **Cell Guy** basically got to rent a car for 5 years and 85,000 miles for $2,000.00, and he’s _still_ complaining. I’d be thanking my lucky stars. What’s the complaint? ---
**Author:** ![Cell\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Cell\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cell_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/82 "2016-11-22T15:00:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I see what you mean. **Cell Guy** basically got to rent a car for 5 years and 85,000 miles for $2,000.00, and he’s _still_ complaining. I’d be thanking my lucky stars. Um…no. I have no complaints about the amount I’m receiving from VW. I’m not sure where you got that from. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/83 "2016-11-22T16:25:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I see what you mean. **Cell Guy** basically got to rent a car for 5 years and 85,000 miles for $2,000.00, and he’s _still_ complaining. I’d be thanking my lucky stars. Agreed with others: that’s not what he said. VW has shown itself to be a terribly dishonest company. Having decent compensation for a buyback doesn’t wipe the slate clean of how they misled their customers. Nor did they cover themselves in glory in their response to this scandal: I think they dragged their feet and I believe there are certain parts of their leadership who still think they didn’t do anything all that bad. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/84 "2016-11-22T16:30:31Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Agreed with others: that’s not what he said.\*\* VW has shown itself to be a terribly dishonest company.\*\* Having decent compensation for a buyback doesn’t wipe the slate clean of how they misled their customers. Nor did they cover themselves in glory in their response to this scandal: I think they dragged their feet and I believe there are certain parts of their leadership who still think they didn’t do anything all that bad. And the fact that all VW vehicles out there were built by that terribly dishonest company. There won’t be any “new” VWs for at least a couple of years. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/85 "2016-11-22T16:52:36Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Agreed with others: that’s not what he said. VW has shown itself to be a terribly dishonest company. Having decent compensation for a buyback doesn’t wipe the slate clean of how they misled their customers. And it doesn’t do anything about the pollution already emitted by these vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/86 "2016-11-22T17:33:23Z")
It’s arguable that VW made all its purchasers unwitting accomplices t murder. How much is that worth? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/87 "2016-11-22T21:08:58Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > It’s arguable that VW made all its purchasers unwitting accomplices t murder. How much is that worth? NADA clean trade in value plus 20% plus about two grand. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/88 "2016-11-23T08:28:04Z")
The whole thing remains a big meh for me. The [current category engines by VW are just about the cleanest out](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/23/diesel-cars-pollution-limits-nox-emissions)there under _real world_ conditions. I have a VW engined car now and wouldn’t have any problem buying one in the future. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/89 "2016-11-23T11:33:14Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The whole thing remains a big meh for me. The [current category engines by VW are just about the cleanest out](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/23/diesel-cars-pollution-limits-nox-emissions)there under _real world_ conditions. I have a VW engined car now and wouldn’t have any problem buying one in the future. Yes, but that’s in Europe, where the emissions limits are higher than what the US EPA allows and the test procedure is hilariously limp with enormous loopholes. And, unsurprisingly, there are some specifies over there which are experiencing smog problems now because of it. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/90 "2016-11-23T13:58:05Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Yes, but that’s in Europe, where the emissions limits are higher than what the US EPA allows and the test procedure is hilariously limp with enormous loopholes. And, unsurprisingly, there are some specifies over there which are experiencing smog problems now because of it. Not all emissions are higher. CO2 and CO are actually more strict for the Euro standards ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/91 "2016-11-23T17:00:17Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Not all emissions are higher. CO2 and CO are actually more strict for the Euro standards yes, which is why they had an increased push for diesel over the past number of years. Unfortunately, diesels are horrible about emissions of nitrogen oxides, which is where irritant smog comes from. and unlike gas/petrol engines you can’t just use a simple three-way catalyst in the exhaust to take care of it. and as this is wraps up, [VW has given up on selling diesel cars in the US.](http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/11/vw-ditches-diesel-tech/) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/92 "2017-01-27T14:16:41Z")
NYTimes article here: [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/business/volkswagen-germany-compliance-hohmann-dennhardt-diesel.html?module=WatchingPortal®ion=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage&action=click&mediaId=thumb\_square&state=standard&contentPlacement=12&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&contentId=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2017%2F01%2F26%2Fbusiness%2Fvolkswagen-germany-compliance-hohmann-dennhardt-diesel.html&eventName=Watching-article-click](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/business/volkswagen-germany-compliance-hohmann-dennhardt-diesel.html?module=WatchingPortal®ion=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage&action=click&mediaId=thumb_square&state=standard&contentPlacement=12&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&contentId=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2017%2F01%2F26%2Fbusiness%2Fvolkswagen-germany-compliance-hohmann-dennhardt-diesel.html&eventName=Watching-article-click) [QUOTE=NYTimes] Volkswagen’s head of compliance — an outsider hired to help revamp the German carmaker after its diesel deception — is to leave her job barely a year after joining the company. The unexpected departure of the executive, Christine Hohmann-Dennhardt, raises concerns about the automaker’s willingness to change ingrained practices, a culture that contributed to the decision to install software designed to cheat emissions tests in more than 11 million cars. Just a few weeks ago, the company pleaded guilty in the United States to criminal charges tied to the deception. Seven Volkswagen executives have been charged in relation to the scandal, and the automaker has agreed to pay $20 billion to resolve civil and criminal charges related to it. Ms. Hohmann-Dennhardt, a former executive at the rival carmaker Daimler who took the job in January 2016, was the first woman to join Volkswagen’s board. She was responsible for integrity and legal affairs, and she will be replaced by Hiltrud Werner, Volkswagen’s chief auditor. [/QUOTE] This isn’t good. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/93 "2017-01-27T14:40:38Z")
> **[Volkswagen Diesel Owners Are Still Turning In Some Real Shitboxes](https://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-diesel-owners-are-still-turning-in-some-real-1791638907)** > > Volkswagen is offering to buy back nearly half a million 2010 to 2015 2.0-liter diesel cars that cheated emissions tests, and now owners of those vehicles are turning in some total beaters. Here’s a look at two examples that are definitely what I’d... and in other news, FCA might be in the crosshairs too (for now.) > **[EPA Accuses Fiat Chrysler of Emissions Cheating on 104,000 Diesels](https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/01/epa-accuses-fiat-chrysler-emissions-cheating-100000-diesel-rams-fingered/)** > > The Environmental Protection Agency has accused Fiat Chrysler Automobiles of installing unapproved emissions software on over 100,000 Jeep and Ram diesels. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/94 "2017-01-27T14:52:28Z")
The Internet Lawyers commenting on that Jalopnik article were entertaining. I wonder if all this stripping means I can stock up on cheap replacement body panels and stuff just in case. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/95 "2017-01-30T14:58:17Z")
See article here: [Volkswagen tops Toyota to become world's biggest carmaker](http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/30/news/volkswagen-toyota-global-auto-sales/index.html) [QUOTE=CNN] Volkswagen’s huge emissions scandal is still unfolding, but it hasn’t stopped the German company from dethroning Toyota as the world’s biggest selling automaker. Toyota ™ announced Monday that its global sales last year inched up 0.2% to 10.2 million vehicles. That leaves it behind the 10.3 million that VW (VLKAY) delivered over the same period. The Japanese giant had held on to the top spot for four years in a row after recapturing it from General Motors in 2012. Toyota lost out in 2011 following the disruption caused by the earthquake and tsunami that hit Japan in March of that year. GM (GM), which came in third for 2015, said it will announce its annual sales figures on Feb. 7. [/QUOTE] Sigh. Crime \*does \*pay. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/96 "2017-10-22T16:06:23Z")
VW now has an ad featuring Joe Cocker’s version of With a Little Help From my Friends, telling a we-were-there with you at Woodstock story. I grew up with a Microbus and a Beetle featured fondly in some family stories. But I wouldn’t consider a VW again. The cynical betrayal of their customers’ trust shouldn’t be frosted over with a hippie dreamscape. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/97 "2017-10-22T17:31:24Z")
Yeah, that commercial is fucking awful. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/98 "2017-10-22T21:50:22Z")
Was it chartreuse? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2025, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/99 "2025-05-26T16:18:33Z")
Bumping this thread: > Two of the executives were sentenced to several years in prison, with two other former employees receiving suspended sentences. > > A former head of diesel engine development was sentenced to four and a half years in prison. The former head of drive electronics received two years and seven months in prison. > > The highest-ranking defendant, a former member of the Volkswagen brand’s development board, received one year and three months’ probation. A former department head was sentenced to one year and ten months’ probation. > **[4 ex-VW managers guilty of fraud over diesel test scandal – DW – 05/26/2025](https://www.dw.com/en/4-ex-vw-managers-guilty-of-fraud-over-diesel-test-scandal/a-72667767)** > > Four former Volkswagen executives have been found guilty of fraud in a criminal trial relating to the "Dieselgate" scandal. Unfortunately the people at the top of VW excaped punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2025, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063/100 "2025-05-27T13:42:50Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > … > [4 ex-VW managers guilty of fraud over diesel test scandal – DW – 05/26/2025](https://www.dw.com/en/4-ex-vw-managers-guilty-of-fraud-over-diesel-test-scandal/a-72667767) > > Unfortunately the people at the top of VW excaped punishment. Too early to say. The trial of Martin Winterkorn, the CEO at the time, was separated from the main trial (where he initially was a defendant) because he needed a hip operation that could not be delayed. His separate trial was then delayed because he had a fall at home but the court hopes for the trial to begin this year. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-vw-volkswagon-emissions-scandal-longer-and-deeper-than-first-thought/740063.md?page=4)