# The Walking Dead; 2.07 "Pretty Much Dead Already" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 28, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298 "2011-11-28T01:30:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/61 "2011-11-28T20:07:47Z")
I was kind of torn by this episode. On the one hand, it was way better than any this season. The direction in particular was outstanding, especially the barn sequence. But on the other, I’m bothered by the treatment of Sophia. She was barely a character, and to spend that much of the season only to have her killed off just doesn’t sit well with me. It’s treating a child as a prop. I can understand if they needed to do it for outside reasons (from the way she stooped, I would guess she had a growth spurt). There really ought to have been either a better development or a quicker resolution. As it was, I got pretty distraught at that scene — not because I felt any attachment to the character, even if the actors sold it well — but because I was upset at the writers for doing this. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/62 "2011-11-28T20:11:06Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > he’s acting rationally for the world they live in and the situation he’s in. Attempting rape isn’t a rational act in the world they live in (at least to my thinking) so he is unambiguously a bad guy to me. That doesn’t mean he is worthless in a small group struggling for survival. But a bad guy. ---
**Author:** ![Dingbang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@Dingbang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dingbang)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/63 "2011-11-28T20:16:26Z")
Even before the carnage at the barn, Rick’s pleading with Herschel for permission to stay was starting to sound unrealistic – and pathetic. Given the scenario, I would have asked Herschel a few times and tried to stay on his good side. But ultimately I wouldn’t let one old man drive me away from a safe haven. I’d tell him that he should be happy we are a (relatively) peaceful, trustworthy group, willing to help and contribute to a communal existence on the farm and not a band of marauders who would simply shoot Hershchel, rape the women, and take the farm. Surely Herschel has read enough zombie novels to know that the roving bands of survivors are as scary as the walking dead. I’d urge Herschel to appreciate the benevolent muscle that showed up on his farm, because the next band of survivors might not be as congenial. We’re staying, Herschel. Make the best of it. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/64 "2011-11-28T20:19:31Z")
> [@Dingbang](#): > > Even before the carnage at the barn, Rick’s pleading with Herschel for permission to stay was starting to sound unrealistic – and pathetic. Given the scenario, I would have asked Herschel a few times and tried to stay on his good side. But ultimately I wouldn’t let one old man drive me away from a safe haven. > I’d tell him that he should be happy we are a (relatively) peaceful, trustworthy group, willing to help and contribute to a communal existence on the farm and not a band of marauders who would simply shoot Hershchel, rape the women, and take the farm. Surely Herschel has read enough zombie novels to know that the roving bands of survivors are as scary as the walking dead. > I’d urge Herschel to appreciate the benevolent muscle that showed up on his farm, because the next band of survivors might not be as congenial. We’re staying, Herschel. Make the best of it. …are you roleplaying Shane in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Dingbang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@Dingbang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dingbang)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/65 "2011-11-28T21:03:24Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …are you roleplaying Shane in this thread? Let’s just say I understand his motivation. It’s realllllly different after the zombies. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/66 "2011-11-28T21:11:46Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Really the abrasive, asshole redneck seemed out of character calling a woman a “bitch?” > Seriously though, Daryl has had a rough life and probably doesn’t know how to react to someone showing him honest affection. Seemed completely in-character to push her away. > [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > I think it’s that he didn’t know how to react to someone who genuinely cared for him and because he really needed to believe that they were going to find Sophia for some reason. When even Carol was giving up hope, that forced him to face the fact he wasn’t ready to accept. > > Edit: should have previewed. > [@AngelSoft](#): > > I had assumed it was because he perceived it as Carol giving up on her daughter and he was pissed at a mother doing that to their own child. I hadn’t thought that it was in regards to her voicing affection for him. Yeah, I guess all of those things would apply. It seemed out of character to me because even though Daryl is a redneck, he usually acts the best of anyone in the group. > [@obfusciatrist](#): > > Attempting rape isn’t a rational act in the world they live in (at least to my thinking) so he is unambiguously a bad guy to me. That doesn’t mean he is worthless in a small group struggling for survival. But a bad guy. Good point; I think it’s time Lori and Dale spoke up and told the rest of the group about Shane - it’s not in the group’s best interests to not know who they’re dealing with. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/67 "2011-11-28T21:28:27Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’m hoping they go True Blood at this point in going their own way plotwise and only taking occasional inspiration or characters from the graphic novels. That would be for the best. Without giving anything away, the comic books from this point on get a little “comic booky” in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/68 "2011-11-28T21:45:39Z")
Meh. Thank fuck, but unfortunately the previous six episodes saw me completely lose interest in the characters. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/69 "2011-11-28T22:05:48Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > And am I the only one who thought Maggie was way overreacting after the near miss? Sure it was her first time actually being faced with the whole life or death situation with a walker, but I don’t understand why she was so pissed at Lori. Being raised by Herschel, it’s not a stretch to think she might not be too pro-abortion in the first place, and here she almost gets killed because some lady wants abortion pills? I can see why that would add to the stress of the moment and make her flip out at Lori. > [@Kolga](#): > > With regard to whether or not the rest of the farm knew about Sophia, Patricia was shown in one scene feeding chickens to the walkers in the barn, and that was after Otis was dead. She didn’t see a little girl in there? I call shenanigans. Dark barn, full of zombies, about to gruesomely tear apart some chickens? Yeah, why didn’t she stay there and look at them long enough to make out each and every one of them and see one was a little girl? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Young Farm Dude With Straw Hat (don’t know his name) said to Herschel “It happened again,” which implied to me that at least HE knew that walkers were getting trapped in that area, having seen it before. That leads me to believe he could know about Little Orphan Zombie in the barn. He knew walkers sometimes get stuck in the river, doesn’t mean he knows every single walker Otis ever wrangled into the barn > [@](#): > > So, Herschel, perhaps Otis (although Sophia may have turned after he was eaten), Patricia from seeing the zombies from above, maybe young dude. I would like to think that Maggie wasn’t such a loser that she’d keep it from Glenn, but she did keep the existence of the Zombie Depot from him, so… > > I don’t know. I just can’t work up any support or love for a group of people who would let another group of people keep going out doing dangerous searches without saying “hey, there’s a pint-sized cannibal in the barn, maybe it’s yours?” But only Otis knew exactly who was in the barn, and he was walker bait before Sophia being missing even came up at the farm, because in the moment they were all in “Carl’s been shot” mode. I just wonder, if Sophia’s been in the barn this whole time, then who the hell has Darryl been tracking? Who had been sleeping in that cupboard? Is there some other missing kid running around the woods? Doesn’t seem like there’d have been time for Sophia to cover all that ground and get zombified and get wrangled into the barn before Carl got shot. She was out there, what, one night before that? Or was it two? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/70 "2011-11-28T22:31:01Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Being raised by Herschel, it’s not a stretch to think she might not be too pro-abortion in the first place, and here she almost gets killed because some lady wants abortion pills? I can see why that would add to the stress of the moment and make her flip out at Lori. > > Dark barn, full of zombies, about to gruesomely tear apart some chickens? Yeah, why didn’t she stay there and look at them long enough to make out each and every one of them and see one was a little girl? :rolleyes: > > He knew walkers sometimes get stuck in the river, doesn’t mean he knows every single walker Otis ever wrangled into the barn > > But only Otis knew exactly who was in the barn, and he was walker bait before Sophia being missing even came up at the farm, because in the moment they were all in “Carl’s been shot” mode. > > I just wonder, if Sophia’s been in the barn this whole time, then who the hell has Darryl been tracking? Who had been sleeping in that cupboard? Is there some other missing kid running around the woods? Doesn’t seem like there’d have been time for Sophia to cover all that ground and get zombified and get wrangled into the barn before Carl got shot. She was out there, what, one night before that? Or was it two? As per sophie - my guess is that she too got caught in the river and wounded somehow, and died there - thats where the doll was - probably sometime the next day - long enough to take refuge in the other house the night before. Dale was tracking her, but about a day too late. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/71 "2011-11-28T22:43:59Z")
> [@Dingbang](#): > > Let’s just say I understand his motivation. It’s realllllly different after the zombies. I couldn’t agree more. Shane is scum, but in this case he’s right. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/72 "2011-11-29T00:11:21Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > This is exactly what happened per Kirkman on The Talking Dead tonight. His wag is that it is karmically Shane’s fault that conversation didn’t take place. This rationale fails to account for the fact that, had Shane not murdered Otis, both he and Otis would have been killed. Any way you cut it, Shane is not responsible for this–karmically or otherwise Best lines (paraphrased and all Shane) (to Laurie) - How many times has Rick saved you and Carl, because by my count I’ve saved you four times? and (to Herschel, and group) - three shots to the chest . . . that’s her heart and her lung . . .yeah, enough. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/73 "2011-11-29T00:13:13Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > I couldn’t agree more. Shane is scum, but in this case he’s right. Shane is right by way of being full-of-shit. He’s scared of his ongoing feelings for Lori coming out; he’s scared of what he did to Otis coming out (that’s the real reason he wants to get gone from the farm, and with Dale punching his buttons to boot…), he’s scared that he can’t live up to Rick’s expectations, he’s scared he can’t live up to the badass country-boy cop image, even as he’s divesting himself of all that “old world” morality. He might even be scared of what he’s becoming. His temper-tantrum meltdown is all that fear coming to a boil and pouring out. Rick’s trying to secure a place at that farm for his people because, up until last night’s episode, that farm seemed like an oasis of sanity in a world of shit, and it seemed like the best place to continue to search for Sophia. Because Rick’s a Protector, and wouldn’t give up the search for Sophia without compelling evidence that further searching would be fruitless. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/74 "2011-11-29T00:34:20Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Finally - what is the story with Sophia? The walkers eat what they catch - so I guess maybe she got bit and got away from just one or two? I know it’s a needs of the plot bit (and I loved her coming out of the barn) - but it seems like a hole to me. This is the problem with the idea of zombies as currently in favor. You have a creature whose main food source, sexual partner and main predator are the same animal. It just doesn’t make sense. I love the Walking Dead but I have to really push ‘suspension of disbelief’ to do so…I just cannot see how the zombie apocalypse can go global when 1 human can easily kill one zombie and if that human becomes a zombie he/she will have been eaten/torn apart. If 1 human kills 2 zombies, the zombie supply will rapidly diminish, not increase. The way I see TWD (or World War Z) making sense is if it really did manifest as some disease which rapidly spread through the population but a few are immune…so massive amounts of zombies are created quickly without having to try to make more from healthy humans. If one wanted to do a ‘start small and grows to global proportions’ zombie apocalypse then one, I think, needs to make zombies harder to kill. Make em still functional even with the brain destroyed. Also, make all mammals at least zombifiable. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/75 "2011-11-29T01:02:55Z")
Good zombie stories (WWZ for example) often rely on a circular meltdown-- zombies taking over causes the chaos which allows the zombies to take over. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/76 "2011-11-29T01:06:47Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > This is the problem with the idea of zombies as currently in favor. > > You have a creature whose main food source, sexual partner and main predator are the same animal. It just doesn’t make sense. > > I love the Walking Dead but I have to really push ‘suspension of disbelief’ to do so…I just cannot see how the zombie apocalypse can go global when 1 human can easily kill one zombie and if that human becomes a zombie he/she will have been eaten/torn apart. If 1 human kills 2 zombies, the zombie supply will rapidly diminish, not increase. Yep. Gaping hole here. I guess we are supposed to imagine that people repeatedly got bitten by a single zombie, killed it, and went on to become zombies themselves? it’s especially buggy in terms of Sofia: she’s a little kid, how did she manage to get bitten and not simultaneously get torn to shreds? Tiny little nibble, scoots away, dies and rises? I have to say I’ve gotten VERY spoiled by the tight, believable writing on Breaking Bad, it’s made me much less patient with cavernous plot holes. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/77 "2011-11-29T01:39:56Z")
_If you’re wondering how he eats and breathes And other science facts, Just repeat to yourself “It’s just a show, I should really just relax”_ ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/78 "2011-11-29T01:51:59Z")
How does Dale know (or think he knows) what really happened with Otis? Is it just because Shane wasn’t giving a lot of detail? Dale’s the only one who noticed Shane’s shifty eyes, or he’s the only one who cares? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/79 "2011-11-29T01:55:14Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Yep. Gaping hole here. I guess we are supposed to imagine that people repeatedly got bitten by a single zombie, killed it, and went on to become zombies themselves?.. It’s still unclear whether or not you need to be biten in order to reanimate. It’s possible the pathogen actually is airborn, but the infected show no symptoms and it lies dormant until death (with the bites speading the “active version” of the pathogen, which is 100% fatal). The writers are being really vague. Clearly the characters belive it’s only spread through bites, but they could be wrong. And there’s the matter of what Dr Jenner told Rick after testing everyone’s blood if it was “Your wife is pregnant”. In the comic…… everyone on Earth is infected. The virus doesn’t do anything until you die, then it reanimated you. Up until they see somebody die they know wasn’t bitten and reanimate the characters belive only bite victims reanimate. > [@Sampiro](#): > > …Poor Carol is heartbreaking. She really has nothing to live for anymore. Her husband is dead, but on the down side so are her kids and unlike in the world before, when it would still be an inconsolable loss, it’s not like she can throw herself into her career or anything like it; she’s still having to scramble for survival and all… Yeah. Carol always seemed so optimistic and upbeat despite what else was happening. Of course she probally had to act like that living with her husband. I think she’ll at least attempt suicide even they if don’t wan’t to loose the actress. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298/80 "2011-11-29T03:04:47Z")
This season was worth it for the Daryl episode and now this one. Loved the ending sequence. Shane is only crazy because he’s surrounded by idiots. It’s like none of these people have ever seen a zombie movie before. Well, I guess that’s a trope usually used in zombie movies anyway. But still, in the second season we’re ruminating over the “zeds aren’t people!” trope? > [@MacTech](#): > > … I’d say he’s closer to snapping and losing it than anyone else on the Motley Crew (I think I’ve coined a convenient term for our merry dysfunctional band of survivors 😉 ) The title of the show is already a cutesy term for the group – The Walking Dead. > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Regarding Glenn and Maggie - is she bi-polar or what? She goes hot and cold in microseconds. When she and Glenn are together, I keep thinking about that saying about sticking your dick in the crazy. Nah, that’s just how the writers portray the women on this show. > [@AngelSoft](#): > > And am I the only one who thought Maggie was way overreacting after the near miss? Sure it was her first time actually being faced with the whole life or death situation with a walker, but I don’t understand why she was so pissed at Lori. The weird thing about Maggie is when she was first introduced she rode on a horse and used a baseball bat on a walker’s head like some kind of Amazon warrior. That was Maggie, right? > [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > If one wanted to do a ‘start small and grows to global proportions’ zombie apocalypse then one, I think, needs to make zombies harder to kill. Make em still functional even with the brain destroyed. Or take the 28 Days Later approach (except make them actually undead): when the zombie gets you on your back he doesn’t try to eat your face, he vomits infected blood into your eyes and mouth instead. And you turn in about 10 seconds. The disease angle is used in a lot of video games too. In L4D2 it’s hinted that the immune are actually asymptomatic carriers. That would be a sucky way to go. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-07-pretty-much-dead-already-open-spoilers/604298.md?page=5)