# The Walking Dead; 2.12 "Better Angels" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502 "2012-03-12T00:25:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/242 "2012-03-13T21:14:56Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > Sure there are many faults I have not focused on: centering six episodes on the search for a character we aren’t invested in; having epsiodes revolve around a new character with no character development at all; cringe-worthy speeches. But none of these can be explained. They is what they is. As I have continually stated, when I started posting, I was hoping to be told, “be cool, it’s all there.” The only person who’s attempted to show that there are not plot holes (second definition) was Ellis, and he was just wrong. I haven’t seen anyone pop up and endorse his gun-ban theory. > > see, this kind of shit I have no problem with Except thats not (_how I recall_) it happened - Rick has gun held out - sideways - in hand and puts it on the ground and as Shane steps in - gun still drawn- toward Rick, presumably to give him his gun - Rick Steps inside, getting shanes gun to the left side (it fires) and whips out his knife with his right hand and stabs him in the heart area - Rick stays over the body till hes gone (interspersed scenes of zombie faces) - then hears Carl approach. Both guns on the ground - of course - I fully expect them to retrieve both guns -after Rick cleans his pants from the near shot of his now expert marksman son - and I don’t care if they show it or not. I’m more bothered by the timing window where shane supposedly breaks Randall’s neck - had to be during the commercial break _after_ he broke his own nose - and he managed to do it without a drop of blood hitting the kid. Internal consistency is more important to me than showing every scene. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/243 "2012-03-13T21:16:08Z")
There are probably many things that have been filmed but cut out due to time constraints. That’s why I only complain about things that i can’t be proven wrong about when the dvd deleted scenes come out. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/244 "2012-03-13T21:20:02Z")
Here’s a fanwank for you - the same virus that re-animates people when they die is also making them heal really quickly. 🙂 ETA: I thought Rick put his gun on the ground, too, but now I’m not sure. I think Shane broke Randall’s neck off-camera, then went and broke his own nose on the tree. At least, I think that is what we are intended to believe happened. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/245 "2012-03-13T21:22:34Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I’m more bothered by the timing window where shane supposedly breaks Randall’s neck - had to be during the commercial break _after_ he broke his own nose - and he managed to do it without a drop of blood hitting the kid. > > Internal consistency is more important to me than showing every scene. Shane broke Randall’s neck before Shane ran into the tree. He did it just offscreen. The broke-necked Randall would play into story about what happened to Rick. The zombification queered that. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/246 "2012-03-13T21:25:00Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Rick has gun held out - sideways - in hand and puts it on the ground and as Shane steps in - gun still drawn- toward Rick, presumably to give him his gun - Rick Steps inside, getting shanes gun to the left side (it fires) and whips out his knife with his right hand and stabs him in the heart area - I don’t think Rick put his gun down. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/247 "2012-03-13T21:29:28Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > Shane broke Randall’s neck before Shane ran into the tree. He did it just offscreen. The broke-necked Randall would play into story about what happened to Rick. The zombification queered that. Was the nose break after the commercail? if so, I can buy that as I could be mis-remembering - last I recall - Randal/shane talking after the “you don’t have to push me” - Shane has gun out of holster - goes straight while kid takes a left - kid falls - silence - shane comes back around the tree and looks toward teh direction - shane breaks nose - runs to camp “dis little kid done broked my nose”. I don’t recall any ‘cuts’ in the above scenes unless I am forgetting a commercial break ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/248 "2012-03-13T21:30:42Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I don’t think Rick put his gun down. I don’t think Shane would have gotten closer to Rick had Rick not put his gun down - its the classic swerve to get the other guy to drop his guard - you drop your gun so you can get him closer to striking distance - if he wasn’t going to drop it - why would he even unholster it? ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/249 "2012-03-13T21:47:26Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Was the nose break after the commercail? if so, I can buy that as I could be mis-remembering - last I recall - > > Randal/shane talking after the “you don’t have to push me” - Shane has gun out of holster - goes straight while kid takes a left - kid falls - silence - shane comes back around the tree and looks toward teh direction - shane breaks nose - runs to camp “dis little kid done broked my nose”. > > I don’t recall any ‘cuts’ in the above scenes unless I am forgetting a commercial break IIRC, Both characters walked offscreen stage left, behind a tree. There was a sudden, stifled noise of alarm from Randall and a low crunching noise, and Shane walked back in from the same direction. It was abundantly clear to me that Shane had cinematically broken Randall’s neck. No question about it. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/250 "2012-03-13T21:55:04Z")
- Rick did not put his gun down, he came in close to Shane and gave it to him, having been slowly approaching during his hole monologue. It was then, when he was sufficiently disarmed that Shane relaxed a little and Rick pulled his knife and stabbed him. - Shane broke Randall’s neck off camera and then broke his own nose on the tree. I do sometimes wonder if AMC is broadcasting different edits to different TVs. ---
**Author:** ![vandal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/858c86/32.png) [@vandal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vandal)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/251 "2012-03-13T21:56:13Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I don’t think Shane would have gotten closer to Rick had Rick not put his gun down - its the classic swerve to get the other guy to drop his guard - you drop your gun so you can get him closer to striking distance - if he wasn’t going to drop it - why would he even unholster it? Just finished watching the episode on DVR a few minutes ago and re-watched the final Rick/Shane scene again. Rick and Shane are talking. Rick unholsters his gun, holds it upside down, walks over to Shane very slowly and methodically, then begins to hand Shane his gun. Shane actually takes the gun (so now Shane is holding both guns), and after a few seconds, Rick quickly takes out his knife and stabs Shane in the belly. Then, Shane slowly falls to the ground as Rick assists him. Shane dies, reanimates, then dies again. End of story. As for the guns, one can assume Shane let go of them as he was dying, so they’re most likely laying in the grass near where he died. If Rick wanted the guns, he would have to walk back a few feet to the original spot where Shane died to pick them up. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/252 "2012-03-13T22:04:39Z")
> [@Scupper](#): > > IIRC, Both characters walked offscreen stage left, behind a tree. There was a sudden, stifled noise of alarm from Randall and a low crunching noise, and Shane walked back in from the same direction. > > It was abundantly clear to me that Shane had cinematically broken Randall’s neck. No question about it. The person who just re-watched it will likely be along to correct us - but I recall Randal going one direction and Shane going straight - since his gun was drawn, I think his first inclination was to shoot the ‘runaway’. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/253 "2012-03-13T22:05:22Z")
> [@simster](#): > > why would he even unholster it? To lull Shayne into a False Sense of Security. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/254 "2012-03-13T22:14:04Z")
> [@vandal](#): > > Just finished watching the episode on DVR a few minutes ago and re-watched the final Rick/Shane scene again. > > Rick and Shane are talking. Rick unholsters his gun, holds it upside down, walks over to Shane very slowly and methodically, then begins to hand Shane his gun. > > Shane actually takes the gun (so now Shane is holding both guns), and after a few seconds, Rick quickly takes out his knife and stabs Shane in the belly. Upon watching the scene again, you are correct, vandal. I though the knife in Rick’s right hand behind his back was his pistol, held backwards. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/255 "2012-03-13T22:20:57Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > - Shane broke Randall’s neck off camera… Well, if he did it off camera, I guess that’s another “plot hole.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/256 "2012-03-13T22:59:55Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Well, if he did it off camera, I guess that’s another “plot hole.” 😃 I’m pretty sure it wasn’t Shayne’s fault. Randall fell into a plot hole and broke his neck. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/257 "2012-03-13T23:43:08Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > - Rick did not put his gun down, he came in close to Shane and gave it to him, having been slowly approaching during his hole monologue. It was then, when he was sufficiently disarmed that Shane relaxed a little and Rick pulled his knife and stabbed him. > > - Shane broke Randall’s neck off camera and then broke his own nose on the tree. > > I do sometimes wonder if AMC is broadcasting different edits to different TVs. No kidding–half of these arguments are because people just aren’t paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/258 "2012-03-14T00:00:44Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Well, if he did it off camera, I guess that’s another “plot hole.” 😃 clever ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/259 "2012-03-14T00:18:48Z")
Aside from Maggie and Glenn, and maybe Andrea and Daryl… I have to admit caring less and less if this group gets massacred - they’re too determinedly self-destructive. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/260 "2012-03-14T00:49:34Z")
I’m not terribly favorable about Glen. He should have been watching the door at the bar. “Rick. We’ve got company.” ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/261 "2012-03-14T02:00:46Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I’m not terribly favorable about Glen. He should have been watching the door at the bar. > “Rick. We’ve got company.” First - I don’t think that would have changed what went down there - they were the first live people they’d seen in days. They would have let them in to talk in any case. Plus, you know, dramatic tension. Second - People keep seeming to impute military training to these guys. Glenn is some mook from Michigan (as it turns out). Maybe Rick should have asked him to watch the door, but zombies aren’t subtle (nor very good at opening doors) and the purpose of the trip was to pick up Herschel. Glenn’s proven his worth with his scouting/scavenging, but the episode in the alley (and driving the car with the alarm on all the way back from Atlanta in season 1) shows that he isn’t yet a hardened survivor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502.md?page=14)