# The Walking Dead; 2.12 "Better Angels" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502 "2012-03-12T00:25:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/302 "2012-03-15T13:35:27Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I know I don’t want to go down the “midichlorians” route and try to explain something that should be accepted for what it is- fantastical and outside the realm of normal possibility. Nice Suggest “Zombiechlorians” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/303 "2012-03-15T13:45:08Z")
Here’s a big issue that never seems to be addressed in the context of the Zombie Apocalypse. Zombies go after people because people are food, right? So the thing is, if you get attacked by zombies, shouldn’t it be pretty likely that you’re going to get eaten up rather than just injured enough to die and have enough body left to become a zombie yourself? If zombies are so hungry all the time, there shouldn’t be all that much left to become the next zombie. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/304 "2012-03-15T14:31:00Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Here’s a big issue that never seems to be addressed in the context of the Zombie Apocalypse. Zombies go after people because people are food, right? So the thing is, if you get attacked by zombies, shouldn’t it be pretty likely that you’re going to get eaten up rather than just injured enough to die and have enough body left to become a zombie yourself? > > If zombies are so hungry all the time, there shouldn’t be all that much left to become the next zombie. Some get away injured - remember the half girl from the first episode? If the brain stays intact - whatever is left animates - the only thing we haven’t seen yet is a decapitated head. “Its only a flesh wound” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/305 "2012-03-15T14:50:56Z")
Yeah, but more often than not “whatever is left” should be so little as to impair the mobility of the animated zombie. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/306 "2012-03-15T16:10:52Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Here’s a big issue that never seems to be addressed in the context of the Zombie Apocalypse. Zombies go after people because people are food, right? So the thing is, if you get attacked by zombies, shouldn’t it be pretty likely that you’re going to get eaten up rather than just injured enough to die and have enough body left to become a zombie yourself? > > If zombies are so hungry all the time, there shouldn’t be all that much left to become the next zombie. Evidence from the majority of zombie dining scenes suggest that zombies are kind of like lions: they go for the guts. (“BRAINZ!!!” notwithstanding…) They seem to particularly delight in uncoiling the intestines and chomping on those… ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/307 "2012-03-15T16:15:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yeah, but more often than not “whatever is left” should be so little as to impair the mobility of the animated zombie. And that’s been shown - again, the crawler zombie from the first episode. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/308 "2012-03-15T16:29:53Z")
I don’t think an individual zombie has limitless hunger. They probably only take enough to fill their stomachs. A swarm would quickly devour a person, but one might just take a head-sized hunk out of a victim. The vast majority of people might have been killed by one or a few zombies. So they would animate with wounds, but not skeletal. When the zombie apocalypse started there were few zombies for each person, so the ones created then would have less eaten. But now, when there are many zombies for each person the people that get eaten are more likely to be chewed to bones as a swarm descends on them. Also, most of the zombies we see are able to move, so by self-selection, we’re only gonna see the ones that can keep up with the pack and have legs. For instance, there may have been a dozen skeletal bodies in the room where Shayne threw the wrench through the glass. But we only saw the ones capable of getting out of the window. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/309 "2012-03-15T16:43:57Z")
> [@simster](#): > > And that’s been shown - again, the crawler zombie from the first episode. > [@Lobohan](#): > > I don’t think an individual zombie has limitless hunger. They probably only take enough to fill their stomachs. A swarm would quickly devour a person, but one might just take a head-sized hunk out of a victim. The vast majority of people might have been killed by one or a few zombies. So they would animate with wounds, but not skeletal. > > When the zombie apocalypse started there were few zombies for each person, so the ones created then would have less eaten. But now, when there are many zombies for each person the people that get eaten are more likely to be chewed to bones as a swarm descends on them. > > Also, most of the zombies we see are able to move, so by self-selection, we’re only gonna see the ones that can keep up with the pack and have legs. For instance, there may have been a dozen skeletal bodies in the room where Shayne threw the wrench through the glass. But we only saw the ones capable of getting out of the window. My point is that there should logically be a lot fewer walkers and a lot fewer large hordes of them than we seem to be encountering. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/310 "2012-03-15T16:51:18Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > My point is that there should logically be a lot fewer walkers and a lot fewer large hordes of them than we seem to be encountering. Why? If at the beginning there were few walkers per person, fewer bodies should have been skeletal. Once there are equal numbers of walkers per person more bodies would be eaten down more, but many, many walkers are probably the result of people who sustain injuries and get away. It’s not like an individual walker is likely to kill you if you’re mobile. They just injure you and you die after you run to safety. So I have no trouble assuming that only, say, a quarter of all people got skeletonized. That still leaves 230 million walkers in the US (assuming 1% of people survived). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/311 "2012-03-15T16:54:32Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > but many, many walkers are probably the result of people who sustain injuries and get away. It’s not like an individual walker is likely to kill you if you’re mobile. They just injure you and you die after you run to safety. I don’t see that. Once you’re attacked and injured by a walker, I should think you’re more likely to be eaten than escape. > [@](#): > > So I have no trouble assuming that only, say, a quarter of all people got skeletonized. That still leaves 230 million walkers in the US (assuming 1% of people survived). Why would you make such a low assumption? ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/312 "2012-03-15T16:54:39Z")
I’m really going to have zombie withdrawal when this season ends. I’ve been watching it nearly every day for the last several weeks. What will I do without a steady diet of braaaaaaaaaaains? 😃 I wrote about the series on my blog today, if anyone’s interested in humorous fashion musings relative to an apocalypse. Link’s in my profile. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/313 "2012-03-15T17:14:30Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > My point is that there should logically be a lot fewer walkers and a lot fewer large hordes of them than we seem to be encountering. Remember that anyone who dies for whatever reason becomes a zombie. Even if you’ve managed to avoid getting bitten by one of the feckers there was the collapse of civilised society to deal with, lots of scared people with guns, cities locked down, possible lack of food, medicine etc. and a hell of a lot of stress. A lot of people would have died due to these and other reasons. They then stand back up. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/314 "2012-03-15T17:16:46Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t see that. Once you’re attacked and injured by a walker, I should think you’re more likely to be eaten than escape. But they’re no stronger than a person, and they run slower than they did in life. If a homeless man with a sprained ankle, who weighed as much as you do, grabbed you and started biting, do you think you’d be able to get away, or would you likely be killed an eaten on the spot? > [@](#): > > Why would you make such a low assumption? Zombie zero rises and bites Victim One. That person gets away. Zombie Zero continues stumbling around and bites Victim Two, that person falls and Zombie Zero bites their throat and eats a stomach-sized chunk of meat from the victim’s face and neck. Zombie Zero walks off and isn’t hungry for a while. In an hour Victim Two rises, becomes Zombie One and sets off stumbling. In twelve hours Victim One dies and Becomes Zombie Two. Now we have three zombies shambling around. Each can’t skeletonize a person by themselves, and only take out enough meat to kill their victims. Until enough zombies swarm together they aren’t going to reduce people to immobile bones. And during the fall of society, I contend that most injuries wouldn’t result immediate death (since it takes a pack to reliably kill someone immediately. If Dale were younger, he probably would have thrown off the zombie on top of him.) So, I’d think that a quarter of all people skeletonized is reasonable. If you want to go nuts and say that 1/2 of all people are skeltonized that still leaves 153 million ambulatory walkers. If you want to say that 3/4 of all people are skeletonized, that still leaves 76 million walkers. If you assume that 90% of people were skeletonized that still leaves 31 million walkers. In any case, whatever the number, what we’ve seen isn’t that unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/315 "2012-03-15T17:17:43Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > I can’t believe they’d have to double up all that much in that house. It is eeeeenormous! You could see the extension off the back in some of the long shots from the shed during The Randall Situation. There are even parlors or sitting rooms off some of the bedrooms.\ I was thinking that, too - I think they said they had 14 people, so 14 people in that huge house would practically be rattling around, not sleeping in a corner of the parlour. That’s the kind of thing that bugs me with this show, not the guns - how they seem to latch onto stereotypes from tv shows/movies without giving a thought to them. Another recent example was Carol’s speech from the round table discussion about Randall - “Stop it! Just stop all the fighting!” Holy cliché, Batman! > [@cerberus](#): > > Nice > > Suggest “Zombiechlorians” Seconded! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/316 "2012-03-15T17:22:13Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Remember that anyone who dies for whatever reason becomes a zombie. Even if you’ve managed to avoid getting bitten by one of the feckers there was the collapse of civilised society to deal with, lots of scared people with guns, cities locked down, possible lack of food, medicine etc. and a hell of a lot of stress. A lot of people would have died due to these and other reasons. They then stand back up. Yeah, that’s true too. If the government fails and the electrical grid and water systems stop, I’d say millions would die within three weeks. I never even considered the general anarchy and starvation. If anything there should be \*less \*than a quarter skeletonized. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/317 "2012-03-15T17:30:20Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > I’m really going to have zombie withdrawal when this season ends. I’ve been watching it nearly every day for the last several weeks. What will I do without a steady diet of braaaaaaaaaaains? 😃 Well, you could always try the 781238 other TV shows, movies, and video games that involve zombies. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/318 "2012-03-15T17:37:34Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Remember that anyone who dies for whatever reason becomes a zombie. Yep, this can explain a lot of it. In normal times, roughly 7,000 people die in the US every day. So at the beginning of this plague there were 7,000 new walkers every day just from natural deaths\*. Add in deaths from zombie bites (spreading as \*\*Lobohan \*\*describes) and the number rises dramatically. Then, as society crumbles, you probably have a rapid die-off (again, from natural causes) of people who would have otherwise lived: people in hospitals and nursing homes and young children left to fend for themselves. \*okay, we don’t really know if the “infection” was completely widespread and reanimating _everyone_ during the early stages, but there’s no evidence against it. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/319 "2012-03-15T17:38:12Z")
I may watch a zombie movie or two, but I haven’t played a video game since Pac Man was new. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/320 "2012-03-15T17:39:21Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > But they’re no stronger than a person, and they run slower than they did in life. Which should mean that overall their range is limited and it shouldn’t be to hard to isolate them after the outbreak is recognized. > [@](#): > > So, I’d think that a quarter of all people skeletonized is reasonable. If you want to go nuts and say that 1/2 of all people are skeltonized that still leaves 153 million ambulatory walkers. If you want to say that 3/4 of all people are skeletonized, that still leaves 76 million walkers. If you assume that 90% of people were skeletonized that still leaves 31 million walkers. Actually, the figure I was asking about was 1 percent survivors. Why would that figure be so low? ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/321 "2012-03-15T17:47:19Z")
How do people survive anyway? I guess I keep thinking it’s like _The Stand_ and a tiny percentage are immune. Which reminds me … is there any evidence that Jenner at the CDC knew how it started? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502.md?page=17)