# The Walking Dead; 2.12 "Better Angels" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502 "2012-03-12T00:25:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/322 "2012-03-15T17:52:46Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > Nice > > Suggest “Zombiechlorians” I endorse this! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/323 "2012-03-15T17:54:39Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > I guess I keep thinking it’s like _The Stand_ and a tiny percentage are immune. Randall and Shane’s deaths seem to imply the opposite – that everyone is already infected and that whoever dies will reanimate. > [@](#): > > Which reminds me … is there any evidence that Jenner at the CDC knew how it started? I don’t recall any such implication, but it’s been a while since I’ve seen those episodes. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/324 "2012-03-15T17:56:37Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Yep, this can explain a lot of it. In normal times, roughly 7,000 people die in the US every day. So at the beginning of this plague there were 7,000 new walkers every day just from natural deaths\*. Add in deaths from zombie bites (spreading as \*\*Lobohan \*\*describes) and the number rises dramatically. Then, as society crumbles, you probably have a rapid die-off (again, from natural causes) of people who would have otherwise lived: people in hospitals and nursing homes and young children left to fend for themselves. > > \*okay, we don’t really know if the “infection” was completely widespread and reanimating _everyone_ during the early stages, but there’s no evidence against it. I guess this makes sense, but it seems to me that after the initial outbreak, it shouldn’t be too hard to organize and isolate the walkers and to take precautions regarding any daily deaths as well. But, eh, I suppose I’m willing to go along with this. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/325 "2012-03-15T18:06:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > but it seems to me that after the initial outbreak, it shouldn’t be too hard to organize and isolate the walkers and to take precautions regarding any daily deaths as well. It’s the Zombie Apocalypse, not the Late Zombie Unpleasantness. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/326 "2012-03-15T18:26:21Z")
Yeah, I’m willing to just accept “and then it all went to hell and here we are.” It is just that to the extent they then start trying to explain how it happened and went to hell, it better make some sense internally within the world presented. I have a hard time believing it wouldn’t be quickly clear to people going through this apocalypse that people never bitten were re-animating within minutes. But I’m willing to go along with it until they do or say something that contradicts it. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/327 "2012-03-15T18:37:16Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > Yeah, I’m willing to just accept “and then it all went to hell and here we are.” > > It is just that to the extent they then start trying to explain how it happened and went to hell, it better make some sense internally within the world presented. > > I have a hard time believing it wouldn’t be quickly clear to people going through this apocalypse that people never bitten were re-animating within minutes. But I’m willing to go along with it until they do or say something that contradicts it. Except for doctors and other hospital workers, most people wouldn’t be watching people die and reanimate until everything starts going to hell. And then, when you see someone get killed and come back, you would probably just assume that during the chaos they got scratched or bit. ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/328 "2012-03-15T18:52:09Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > I have a hard time believing it wouldn’t be quickly clear to people going through this apocalypse that people never bitten were re-animating within minutes. Remember that, initially, people weren’t re-animating within minutes. It took whatshername’s sister quite a while to re-animate, and she was quicker than the dead soldier in the tank. Whatever it is that re-animates folks, it looks like it’s sped up quite a bit over time. Maybe it’s based on replication of the dormant virus in the host over time – the larger the virus load in the deceased, the more rapidly it can manage the reboot process. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/329 "2012-03-15T19:09:28Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > How do people survive anyway? I guess I keep thinking it’s like _The Stand_ and a tiny percentage are immune. That would be an interesting to thing to find out- that some don’t regenerate. (Certain blood types or whatever.) [QUOTE=Ellen Cherry] Which reminds me … is there any evidence that Jenner at the CDC knew how it started? [/QUOTE] He’d isolated how it regenerated the brain stem, but I don’t think he had a theory on how it initially began (other than it probably involved kids masturbating, the obesity epidemic, and Jews and Freemasons). I think this show should go to a ‘confessional’ format, incidentally, kind of like the one used on _The Office_ or _Modern Family_ where you see some events then the character talks directly to the camera. It would be a better way to understand what’s going on with them. > [@](#): > > SHANE: Alright, so me and Lori, you know, we kinda had this thing, well now she’s sending me what you call those mixed metaphors. ‘Hey Shane, go away, I’m back with Rick now’, but you can tell what she means is ‘9:30 p.m., my tent’, and Rick, he says he don’t have no hard feeling about me leaving him in the hospital but why does Lori keep bringing it up? Like she’s never done nothing! I remember back before the whole Apocaholics or whatever went down she was doing the same thing… one time at a Sheriff’s Department barbecue I drank too much and got a little huggy and got some barbecue sauce on her blouse and oh, don’t worry Shane, it happens, but never would pass up a chance to bring it up again. Even when I bought her a new blouse. You just gotta let things go, you know? Like, take me for instance, I shot Otis in cold blood and fed him to zombies, but do you hear me crying a like a pansy over it? Shit no! It’s like Dr. Phil used to say, we have luggage, and you just need to give it to the bellboy, cause that fox is out of the henhouse. Or something. I remember there was farm animals. I wonder if Dr. Phil made it out. or > [@](#): > > MAGGIE: You know what I miss most about before the Apocalypse? Frozen yogurt. Strawberry frozen yogurt especially. And my mom I guess. But… you have to move on. And I find I like shooting things in the head. In fact, I’m kind of sort of glad I didn’t know how much I liked shooting things in the head before the apocalypse, because if I’d known it I probably still would have done it, but… well, you just couldn’t get away with it then. I did push an ex-boyfriend in front of a MARTA train one time, but that was an accident. Well, not an accident so much as… what do you call it? Impromptu. I was always afraid somebody would look at the footage and figure out what happened but then a couple of days later there were these news stories about how one of the Kardashians ate Bruce Jenner and then how the same thing happened in Detroit and then Florida, and then the whole world went down, and so I never got prosecuted. So it’s like I told my sister just before I shot her, you have to look at the silver lining. or > [@](#): > > T-DOG: Hey. I’m still alive. Bye. Maybe Jimmy and T-Dog will develop a Troy and Abed rapport and special clap-handshake. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/330 "2012-03-15T19:16:35Z")
> [@Scupper](#): > > Remember that, initially, people weren’t re-animating within minutes. It took whatshername’s sister quite a while to re-animate, and she was quicker than the dead soldier in the tank. Whatever it is that re-animates folks, it looks like it’s sped up quite a bit over time. Maybe it’s based on replication of the dormant virus in the host over time – the larger the virus load in the deceased, the more rapidly it can manage the reboot process. The CDC dude said that time varied greatly from 3 minutes to 8 hours. Also, I took it as the zombie in the tank had gone into hibernation mode until some stimulus came along. He was essentially in an empty room after a while. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/331 "2012-03-15T19:31:34Z")
Or > [@](#): > > DARYL: Jesus fuck, what is the matter with these people? I think I gotta hightail it into the hills before these idiots get me killed. ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/332 "2012-03-15T20:27:14Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The CDC dude said that time varied greatly from 3 minutes to 8 hours. > > Also, I took it as the zombie in the tank had gone into hibernation mode until some stimulus came along. He was essentially in an empty room after a while. Ah, I don’t remember the bit about the CDC dude. I haven’t watched the S1 finale since it aired. The tank guy would be the only hibernating zombie we’ve seen so far, though, wouldn’t he? Not that I don’t think that’s a possibility. It’s not like they do a lot of reading or yoga to keep them occupied. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/333 "2012-03-15T20:29:24Z")
> [@Scupper](#): > > Ah, I don’t remember the bit about the CDC dude. I haven’t watched the S1 finale since it aired. The tank guy would be the only hibernating zombie we’ve seen so far, though, wouldn’t he? > > Not that I don’t think that’s a possibility. It’s not like they do a lot of reading or yoga to keep them occupied. I’m not sure, but I think there was one sitting down, apparently inert, near a fence in the pilot. I could be mistaken though. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/334 "2012-03-15T20:30:47Z")
> [@Scupper](#): > > Ah, I don’t remember the bit about the CDC dude. I haven’t watched the S1 finale since it aired. The tank guy would be the only hibernating zombie we’ve seen so far, though, wouldn’t he? > > Not that I don’t think that’s a possibility. It’s not like they do a lot of reading or yoga to keep them occupied. I think we’ve seen a lot of zombies that seemed to be “hibernating” until a live person walked by – lots of them sitting in vehicles of some kind. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/335 "2012-03-15T20:42:30Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think we’ve seen a lot of zombies that seemed to be “hibernating” until a live person walked by – lots of them sitting in vehicles of some kind. The ones who were “riding” the bus in Atlanta. ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/336 "2012-03-15T22:42:42Z")
I know if I was a zombie, I’d be a serious hibernater. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/337 "2012-03-16T00:39:22Z")
Assuming that everyone is infected, the thing that currently bothers me is why does getting bit lead to fever, death and reanimation? On the other, it’s zombies, so there’s not a lot to be gained by thinking about it too much. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/338 "2012-03-16T00:45:24Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Assuming that everyone is infected, the thing that currently bothers me is why does getting bit lead to fever, death and reanimation? > > On the other, it’s zombies, so there’s not a lot to be gained by thinking about it too much. Two different viruses, that started off the same and one mutated in humans? The same virus, but it changes when it resides in re-animated humans? ---
**Author:** ![pompeybear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8c91f0/32.png) [@pompeybear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pompeybear)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/339 "2012-03-16T01:35:23Z")
So if all dead come back as zombies, I can see why the CDC guy would be so pessimistic. If all one had to do was avoid zombie bites, then theoretically one could simply outlast the zombies (even if it took a few years). If everyone is infected already, however, then the zombie menace would never end until everyone was dead. Even if people outlived the initial zombie holocaust another one would eventually occur. Society would never be able to rebuild. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/340 "2012-03-16T01:58:51Z")
What I don’t understand is how there’s enough left to reanimate. Do the zombies stop eating after the prey is dead for X minutes? They don’t seem to stop eating horses and cows until they can’t hold anymore, and the horses and cows don’t seem to reanimate. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/341 "2012-03-16T03:20:12Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > cows don’t seem to reanimate. That would be a bitch, man. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502.md?page=18)