# The Walking Dead; 2.12 "Better Angels" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502 "2012-03-12T00:25:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/41 "2012-03-12T05:28:12Z")
> [@Marconi\_N.Cheese](#): > > Lori’s much more than a whiny bitch, apparently. Her plan almost back-fired on her, though. \ My husband reminded me of what a schemer she is. Do you suppose her talk with Shane tonight was aimed at driving him right off his rocker? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/42 "2012-03-12T05:33:51Z")
> [@Mole](#): > > Ditto. Rick was making it obvious as they walked that he didn’t buy the story of the kid escaping. I think Shane only decided to kill him after that, and even then it was pretty clear he was still going back and forth on whether to do it, since he sits around and chats up Rick for five minutes without actually shooting him. > [@Cat](#): > > My husband reminded me of what a schemer she is. Do you suppose her talk with Shane tonight was aimed at driving him right off his rocker? I read it as her trying to draw Shane back into the group. It seems kind of a stretch that she’d predict what would happen. She does need to keep a little closer tabs on what happens to her kid though, this is like the third time she’s sent him out to play in the zombie infested hell-scape without supervision. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/43 "2012-03-12T05:39:39Z")
Comic Spoiler [spoiler]Everybody comes back in the comic, unless you take out the brain. Bites kill, then you reanimate - but you would have regardless of non-brain wrecking cause of death. In the comic, Carl shot Shane first. Rick figured out later that everybody comes back, and went back to put Shane down.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/44 "2012-03-12T07:23:01Z")
> [@simster](#): > > was specifically talked about in season one in the Atlanta rest home. What was exactly? I’d think they’d know of the danger, if anyone did, but I don’t remember it being addressed. So what was whispered in Rick’s ear? He seemed surprised at both the pregnancy and the resurrection. What’s left? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/45 "2012-03-12T07:29:10Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > What was exactly? I’d think they’d know of the danger, if anyone did, but I don’t remember it being addressed… I don’t remember the issue being raised onscreen, but it would’ve been pretty damn obvious to the nursing home staff that everyone who died reanimated. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/46 "2012-03-12T07:31:43Z")
Does anyone have a sense of what happened with Shane and Randall? Randall is behind a tree. There are zombie noises. Shane approaches and get a random bloody nose. Later Randall is a zombie. It isn’t at all clear to me what exactly we are supposed to think happened in that scene. ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/47 "2012-03-12T07:34:12Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Shane got lucky. Yeah … not so much. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/48 "2012-03-12T07:36:37Z")
Carl only came out of the house in response to the gun fire…whats weird is that he was the only one. re time to pop up and start chowing down on your former friends, in the CDC they mention that it takes anywhere from 3min to 8 hours iirc. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/49 "2012-03-12T08:04:50Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > Does anyone have a sense of what happened with Shane and Randall? Randall is behind a tree. There are zombie noises. Shane approaches and get a random bloody nose. Later Randall is a zombie. > > It isn’t at all clear to me what exactly we are supposed to think happened in that scene. Shane walked up behind him and snapped his neck. I didn’t hear zombie noises, I heard a scuffle and and likely bones snapping. Shane does not get a random bloody nose, he intentionally bashes his own face into a tree and bloodies himself. > [@Critical1](#): > > Carl only came out of the house in response to the gun fire…whats weird is that he was the only one. I don’t remember any gunshots until Carl himself shoots zombified Shane. Rick had stabbed Shane to death, not shot him. It was only at hearing Carl’s shot that they showed the zombies reacting. So unless I’m forgetting something, Carl did not come because of a gunshot. Maybe it was the yelling? ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/50 "2012-03-12T08:16:23Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > I don’t remember any gunshots until Carl himself shoots zombified Shane. Rick had stabbed Shane to death, not shot him. It was only at hearing Carl’s shot that they showed the zombies reacting. So unless I’m forgetting something, Carl did not come because of a gunshot. Maybe it was the yelling? when Rick Stabbed Shane, Shane fired a shot. It looked like Rick had control of his gun hand so the shot went wide. That combined with Carl makes 2 shots in probably 5 minutes or so. ---
**Author:** ![Marconi\_N.Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Marconi\_N.Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marconi_N.Cheese)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/51 "2012-03-12T11:48:39Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > My husband reminded me of what a schemer she is. Do you suppose her talk with Shane tonight was aimed at driving him right off his rocker? I think it was designed to push the Rick/Shane thing to a head. I’m not sure she even cared who ‘won’. Shane’s working on the windmill, minding his own business. Lori comes over and says “Why don’t you get some help?” Shane: “Don’t need any.” Lori: “Come down, let’s talk.” “I don’t even know who’s baby this is.” “Remember the great times we had when we thought Rick was dead?” “Thank you for saving us.” Before that, she was telling Shane they had nothing, and what they did have was over forever now that Rick was back. And it was Rick’s baby, not his. This had me puzzled until the scene in the field, then it all clicked together. Is Andrea going to be pissed? No time for that now, Zombies! ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/52 "2012-03-12T11:51:53Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > So what was whispered in Rick’s ear? > > He seemed surprised at both the pregnancy and the resurrection. What’s left? I think it’s important to remember that Rick has the least zombie experience of anyone in the group, being in a coma through the early stages. Prior to Shane, I think the only person he’s seen come back is Andrea’s sister (was he back from Atlanta when that happened?), and that took a while. So, if the doc did tell him everyone is infected, that doesn’t mean he’s actually processed the information. He’d just killed his best friend; he was dealing with that when he looks up and sees Carl standing there. He didn’t respond the way I would have playing a video game, but I think it was a pretty well written scene (and how often do you get to say that in this program, much as I like it?). Interesting point about Carl/Lucas McCain missing his shot. I think he’d drawn on Rick, but once he saw zombie Shane, he changed his target. A lucky/unlikely shot, but I’m OK with it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/53 "2012-03-12T12:08:54Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Interesting point about Carl/Lucas McCain missing his shot. I think he’d drawn on Rick, but once he saw zombie Shane, he changed his target. A lucky/unlikely shot, but I’m OK with it. I think it was the standard dramatic scene where we think the good guy is going to get shot, but it is a bad guy sneaking up. It also vindicates Carl from not shooting and causing Darryl’s death by shooting and saving Rick. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/54 "2012-03-12T13:26:33Z")
I think the viewpoints shown from Rick’s perspective, then Carl’s were happening at the same time, so from Rick and our view, Carl was holding a gun on him, but Carl was viewing the scene that came directly after that with zombie Shane getting up. When Shane was having the episode in the barn, I thought it was due to zombie fever. Someone on the Talking Dead noticed him stabbing a zombie with a knife, then using it to cut himself a couple of episodes ago. Shane probably saved the group’s lives or at least bought them more time by killing Randall. Everyone else was stupid to think they could let Randall go after torturing him. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/55 "2012-03-12T13:53:58Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I think it was the standard dramatic scene where we think the good guy is going to get shot, but it is a bad guy sneaking up. > It also vindicates Carl from not shooting and causing Darryl’s death by shooting and saving Rick. I want to think that as well, but it looked to me like Carl drew on Rick before Zombie-Shane showed any signs of zombietude. If that’s true, it may have been a “I want to shoot my dad for killing my other dad,” with Carl having an impromptu change of heart to “I want to shoot my zombie-dad.” However, I was splitting my attention between my computer and the TV at the time, so I may not have the best recollection of that scene. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/56 "2012-03-12T13:57:15Z")
Shane, though evil, played Randall masterfully, getting him to reveal himself and the true nature of the other group. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/57 "2012-03-12T14:00:10Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > I want to think that as well, but it looked to me like Carl drew on Rick before Zombie-Shane showed any signs of zombietude. If that’s true, it may have been a “I want to shoot my dad for killing my other dad,” with Carl having an impromptu change of heart to “I want to shoot my zombie-dad.” > > However, I was splitting my attention between my computer and the TV at the time, so I may not have the best recollection of that scene. I just watched that scene. We don’t see Shane when Carl first draws but the next cut which is very soon after we see Shane standing up behind Rick. Seemed clear to me after seeing Shane stand up that Carl was always reacting to Shane but we were meant to think he was drawing on Rick initally. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/58 "2012-03-12T14:00:17Z")
In comparison to the hordes of hungry rotting corpses and Mad Max style total collapse of civilization, it’s more of an inconvenient funereal housekeeping thing than a big danger, isn’t it? Are they going to go the “everybody in the world has it” route or make it a body fluid contact thing? The repeated showing of Randall’s bloody wrists feels like a deliberate clue. Open wounds+infected dirt from the barn floor=case of zombitis? Of course, as everyone has pointed out, these guys have been terrifically cavalier about infection control, so our protagonists have probably all got it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/59 "2012-03-12T14:04:58Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Shane, though evil, played Randall masterfully, getting him to reveal himself and the true nature of the other group. Really? I don’t think he really revealed anything he hadn’t before. He said they were a tough bunch of guys and that Shane would fit in well. He sounded more positive then he did before when talking about them, but then he wants Shane to want to join the other group since that’s why Shane is keeping him alive (plus, even if he hated being with the old group, its probably more fun then being chained up and tortured in a barn). ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/60 "2012-03-12T14:10:26Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > So unless I’m forgetting something, Carl did not come because of a gunshot. Maybe it was the yelling? Carl had been looking out the window of his room with binoculars. I figured he saw his father and Shane in the field and went out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502.md?page=4)