# The Walking Dead; 2.12 "Better Angels" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502 "2012-03-12T00:25:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/141 "2012-03-12T22:30:06Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Is there anything that explains why a horde of zombies is descending on the farm all of a sudden? Is it just a random thing? I figure that people hammering all day and then a pair of gunshots caught the attention of a wandering shamble. They might have passed by, but our rag-tag band of survivors just got unlucky. I think they should have planned to use the barn as an emergency walker containment trap. Turn off all the lights in the house and go into silent running. Fire off some noisemakers and have somebody shout at the walkers from the barn. Get them all a-shamblin’ in and simply climb up the ladder to the hayloft, still keeping their attention. Have a buddy stealthily close and chain the barn door. Then you can euthanize them all with a garden weasel from up top and you only have to worry about mopping up the stragglers outside. ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/142 "2012-03-12T22:31:08Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > They clearly showed us headshots on both. Rick killed the guy who was behind the bar reaching for the gun with a perfect headshot, spun around and shot the fat guy in the chest, then stepped closer, aimed at his head, and shot again. Ah, good. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/143 "2012-03-12T22:32:05Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Is there anything that explains why a horde of zombies is descending on the farm all of a sudden? Is it just a random thing? They’ve been mentioning that the zombies in Atlanta have been wandering out into the countryside for several weeks now, and zombies seem to usually travel in packs, so I imagine there was just a big pack that wandered out of the city and was near enough to hear the gunshots. > [@scupper](#): > > My question is why the two punks in the bar didn’t reanimate, since they had plenty of time to do so. I don’t recall whether they were headshot or not. I don’t find it upsetting that they didn’t, though, since we don’t really know anything about how this works other than that it worked on Shane and Randall sans bite. Maybe it only works that way on brunettes, or people who haven’t had alcohol in their system for more than 48 hours, or people whose first names come after “Quentin,” alphabetically. Jenner says the time it takes someone bitten by a zombie takes to zombify takes from hours to days depending on the person. Seems reasonable that the time it takes a dead person to zombify might span a wide range of times as well. (and yea, this show has some plotholes, but methinks people are trying a little to hard and claiming everything that isn’t shown explicitly on camera is some sort of glaring error) (and also, I like to think that this whole time on the farm, Jimmy and T-Dog have had a series of wild and crazy adventures that we never hear about while everyone was moping around the farm, which is why we never see them. No reason, I just like to think that.) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/144 "2012-03-12T22:33:19Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > They clearly showed us headshots on both. Rick killed the guy who was behind the bar reaching for the gun with a perfect headshot, spun around and shot the fat guy in the chest, then stepped closer, aimed at his head, and shot again. > > EDIT: I think that week’s thread also had a couple mentions of Zombieland’s “double tap” rule in reference to the bar shootout. Don’t come in here and ruin our bitchfest trying to poke holes in the plot, what with all your fancy facts and stuff… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/145 "2012-03-12T22:36:11Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > (and also, I like to think that this whole time on the farm, Jimmy and T-Dog have had a series of wild and crazy adventures that we never hear about while everyone was moping around the farm, which is why we never see them. No reason, I just like to think that.) That would be awesome! RICK: Shane led me on a wild goose chase into the woods so he could kill me and regain the love of my wife and son, so I stabbed him in the heart and then my boy headshot him when he rose as a walker. Oh, and now a horde of walkers is after us and will be here any minute. _JIMMY AND T-DOG SHARE A KNOWING LOOK_ T-DOG: You think that’s bad? Let me tell you about OUR day … ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/146 "2012-03-12T22:39:32Z")
They could have their own “Nicky and Paulo” episode next season, though I think the reactions fans had to that Lost episode would probably scare the producers off that idea. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/147 "2012-03-12T22:41:43Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Don’t come in here and ruin our bitchfest trying to poke holes in the plot, what with all your fancy facts and stuff… > > 😃 Ellis Dee: You know what your problem is, Pal? Your problem is confusing people with the facts, Pal, that’s what your problem is! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/148 "2012-03-12T22:52:02Z")
> [@ellis dee](#): > > they could have their own “nicky and paulo” episode next season, though i think the reactions fans had to that lost episode would probably scare the producers off that idea. never say those names again! ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/149 "2012-03-12T23:45:22Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Honestly? I don’t care. I mean no disrespect, I’m genuinely curious; why on earth do you watch this show? None taken. First, keep in mind, you’re not getting a complete picture of my response to the show. I am not gushing about the things I like because, well I don’t feel like it and you don’t care. When I raise these points, I sincerely hope to be corrected (still waiting). I very much liked the entire season one, and overall, I liked this episode, too. Two, I am bothered by what I’ve seen described as this show’s frustrated potential. With season one, I saw a chance to transcend “genre” tv. Three, I love the genre. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/150 "2012-03-12T23:46:17Z")
> [@Scupper](#): > > That would be awesome! > > RICK: Shane led me on a wild goose chase into the woods so he could kill me and regain the love of my wife and son, so I stabbed him in the heart and then my boy headshot him when he rose as a walker. Oh, and now a horde of walkers is after us and will be here any minute.\ I’m guessing Rick isn’t going to be nearly that succinct. 🙂 They need to start treating Carl like an adult, not a child. This is really bugging me - at 12 years old, in this situation, he needs to start hauling his weight (and the adults need to let him). ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/151 "2012-03-12T23:47:35Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > No purpose behind the drop other than to create a plot hole, calling for one more fanwank patch. Yep. The drop served the purpose of making Carl feel guilty, but the writers could just as well have had Carl keep the gun and run off. He’d still feel guilty, and we wouldn’t have to wank about the damn gun, who might find it, whether Darryl might need it, and how Carl managed to get it back. But Carl feeling guilty went nowhere, unless the writers did it to make us wonder if Carl would chicken out again, when Shane reanimated. Kinda lame, I think. Maybe the writers have a tight schedule, and would do better if they had more time. The show has had some moments that resonate, but they’re far too few. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/152 "2012-03-12T23:51:48Z")
> [@Scupper](#): > > Ah, good. So you’re bothered by something that wasn’t–Ellis is right, Rick double tapped the guys in the bar–but give not a damn about an obvious stupid mistake? I mentioned Chekov’s gun earlier. This is an example. The dropped gun is simply a plot hole. It might not bother you. You might not care (though you seem to care about some incosistency, just ones that aren’t). It’s a plot hole nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/153 "2012-03-12T23:56:36Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > So you’re bothered by something that wasn’t–Ellis is right, Rick double tapped the guys in the bar–but give not a damn about an obvious stupid mistake? I mentioned Chekov’s gun earlier. This is an example. The dropped gun is simply a plot hole. It might not bother you. You might not care (though you seem to care about some incosistency, just ones that aren’t). It’s a plot hole nonetheless. How is it a plot hole? The kid has the gun later, so obviously he went back and got the gun. Just because every thing isn’t expliticlty shown on screen doesn’t make it a plot hole. I mean, we haven’t seen some of the characters eat since the CDC. Why aren’t the starving to death? Plot hole? And I’m pretty sure your using the term “Chekov’s gun” wrong. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/154 "2012-03-12T23:59:50Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that Carl got the gun right before giving it to Shane. No, just a fanwanker. Or maybe they showed in in the same episode where Hershel forbid Otis from carrying a handgun. Like I said, why have him drop it if you’re not going to use the drop? Bad writing. I’ve seen so many flat out wrong suppositions in this thread, stuff that anyone paying minimum attention knows just are wrong–hell, you did it just a moment ago–but then I popint what it s glaringly obvious hole and some sophisticate tries to explain to me that they don’t have to show me everything that happnes. Like I’m some rube that could barely figure out the tv set. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/155 "2012-03-13T00:00:29Z")
I don’t agree the dropped gun is a plot hole - Carl went and got the gun before going to talk to Shane. The writers on this show are terribly inconsistent - brilliant at times and hacks at times, but I’m not willing to pin this one on them. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/156 "2012-03-13T00:01:48Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I’m guessing Rick isn’t going to be nearly that succinct. 🙂 > > They need to start treating Carl like an adult, not a child. This is really bugging me - at 12 years old, in this situation, he needs to start hauling his weight (and the adults need to let him). I think the scene where Rick talks to him and insists that he take the gun back is doing just that. Carl needs to lose the hat though. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/157 "2012-03-13T00:06:06Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I think the scene where Rick talks to him and insists that he take the gun back is doing just that. Carl needs to lose the hat though. You’re probably right - I guess Lori needs to get the memo. 🙂 The hat has been bugging me since Rick gave it to him, and I’m not even sure why. Maybe because it was part of a police uniform, and Carl doesn’t have the right to wear it? I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/158 "2012-03-13T00:08:56Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > How is it a plot hole? The kid has the gun later, so obviously he went back and got the gun. Just because every thing isn’t expliticlty shown on screen doesn’t make it a plot hole. > > I mean, we haven’t seen some of the characters eat since the CDC. Why aren’t the starving to death? Plot hole? > > And I’m pretty sure your using the term “Chekov’s gun” wrong. This is an unbelievably stupid comparison and one I addressed in the last thread. These aren’t incidental acts we’re talking about. These are plot points. The director took time to focus our attention on the fact the gun dropped by isolating it in a shot. I’m not misusing the term Chekov’s gun, which refers generally to foreshadowing. The “rule” derived from it is: you don’t put a gun on the table (or drop it on the woods) in the first act unless you’re going to use it in the third. The fact that Carl dropped the gun and went back is not as big of a deal as the fact that they called attention to him dropping it but then fail to show how he retrieved it. This is an imbalance in the writing. They might as well just write in a new character (call him Poochie) and have no one address the fact that his arrival is new. It wouldn’t take a rocket scientist to know he came from somewhere, and they probably made their introductions off screen. The story is told onscreen. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/159 "2012-03-13T00:11:30Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I don’t agree the dropped gun is a plot hole - Carl went and got the gun before going to talk to Shane. The writers on this show are terribly inconsistent - brilliant at times and hacks at times, but I’m not willing to pin this one on them. If not a plot hole, then bad writing. Again, at best, the dropped gun is superfluous to the story. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502/160 "2012-03-13T00:13:12Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > No, just a fanwanker. Or maybe they showed in in the same episode where Hershel forbid Otis from carrying a handgun. > > Like I said, why have him drop it if you’re not going to use the drop? Bad writing. I’ve seen so many flat out wrong suppositions in this thread, stuff that anyone paying minimum attention knows just are wrong–hell, you did it just a moment ago–but then I popint what it s glaringly obvious hole and some sophisticate tries to explain to me that they don’t have to show me everything that happnes. Like I’m some rube that could barely figure out the tv set. Clarification: here, I meant Ellis corrected a mistake, not that he made one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-12-better-angels-open-spoilers/615502.md?page=9)