# The Walking Dead; 2.13 "Beside the Dying Fire" SEASON FINALE (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 18, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171 "2012-03-18T23:16:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/181 "2012-03-20T17:14:55Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > You’d think it’d be easy to protect yourself from a mindless horde, but now we know it’s not so easy. The zombies could wait you out, unless something else distracted them. > > I guess you could keep a few animals in the house and let them loose – the zombies would follow and would likely keep moving even after eating the animals. They aren’t going to remember where the animals came from and go back for more. Using animals as a distraction is an idea I’d not thought of! But yeah, you’re right, it’s easy to sit back and think ‘_stupid, **I’d** be smarter_’, when truthfully my actual, real life, in case of zombies plan is to hide and be\* really quiet\*… ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/182 "2012-03-20T17:17:07Z")
> [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](#): > > Yeah, I never understood why they stayed at the farm, left it, and most importantly why they didn’t do anything to \*improve \*it. What about thinking about a nice, strong wall? They could have \*started \*work on a concrete wall. Just a small one around the house might have made a difference, maybe with some converted farming tools you could safety kill zombies until there are no more. But no, that would take time away from all the drama, bitching, and stupid decisions. The whole point, which I think Herschel brought up, was that they were complacent. Until Dale got attacked, the only zombies that were at the farm were the ones in the barn, which the farm crew brought in from the woods. ---
**Author:** ![Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8dc957/32.png) [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Christopher_Robin_Davies)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/183 "2012-03-20T17:18:54Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Personally, I would be disappointed by a supernatural explanation, for many of the same reasons that I was disappointed by the supernatural endings to _Battlestar Galactica_ and _Lost_: > > 1. In our modern world, a supernatural cause is less frightening than a scientific one, because it’s easier for us to imagine something like this actually happening. If it turns out to be supernatural, that robs the story of its power, because we know it’s merely fantasy. > > 2. A supernatural cause is less interesting than a scientific one. It offers fewer moral, ethical, and logistical dilemmas, problems, and puzzles. > > 3. A supernatural cause has become so clichéd that it’s really kind of lazy. It’s too easy to say “a wizard it it.” It ruins the storytelling process and the mystery. It cheapens all the tension and care that we give the plot and the characters. > > 4. A supernatural cause is a kind of deus ex machina. > > 5. The story as it has been set up has prepared us for there to be a scientific explanation rather than a supernatural one. Presented with problems and mysteries and questions that seem unsolvable makes us expect a really good rationalistic explanation. It makes us think that the writers are working hard to really come up with a good answer to the questions. 1. I can understand that but I do not see how a virus that infects everyone but is completely without symptoms until you die is any less supernatural than Satan deciding that Hell is full up so he sends all the dead back to Earth. Saying that the virus explanation is truly science fiction. The virus makes about as much real-world sense as Spider-Man. 2. I do not understand why a magical explanation for the zombies would present any less moral complexity than a scientific one. Can you explain please? 3. I do not see how the supernatural explanation is any more cliche than the scientific one. In the Romero movies there is no explanation at all I think. In 28 Days/Weeks Later there is a science explanation and also in the Will Smith movie I Am Legend. 4. I do not think so. How is saying magic did it any more deus ex machina than saying technobabble sciencd did it? 5. That might be true. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/184 "2012-03-20T17:20:55Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > The whole point, which I think Herschel brought up, was that they were complacent. Until Dale got attacked, the only zombies that were at the farm were the ones in the barn, which the farm crew brought in from the woods. Complacent, and the farmhouse crew were either deeply in denial or oblivious to what was actually going on with the world. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/185 "2012-03-20T17:30:13Z")
> [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](#): > > 1. I can understand that but I do not see how a virus that infects everyone but is completely without symptoms is any less supernatural than Satan deciding that Hell is full up so he sends all the dead back to Earth. Saying that the virus explanation is truly science fiction. How do you figure? How uncommon do you suppose that various kinds of viral, bacterial, or other microbial infections are? > [@](#): > > 1. I do not understand why a magical explanation for the zombies would present any less moral complexity than a scientific one. Can you explain please? A supernatural explanation creates a binary black-and-white good-against-evil moral situation. It makes decision less ambiguous and creates less cognitive dissonance when difficult decisions must be made. > [@](#): > > 1. I do not see how the supernatural explanation is any more cliche than the scientific one. In the Romero movies there is no explanation at all I think. In 28 Days/Weeks Later there is a science explanation and also in the Will Smith movie I Am Legend. Just because X has happened before doesn’t mean that X is a cliche. And if magic is the cause, we should be told from the start that this is a world in which magic exists. > [@](#): > > 1. I do not think so. How is saying magic did it any more deus ex machina than saying technobabble sciencd did it? Is all science “technobabble science”? Scientific explanations have to work harder to create solutions with verisimilitude. And verisimilitude is really the key here. A supernatural cause definitively removes the story from reality; whereas a scientific cause, done well, still can allow for verisimilitude and thus be scarier. ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/186 "2012-03-20T17:59:09Z")
> [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](#): > > 1. I can understand that but I do not see how a virus that infects everyone but is completely without symptoms until you die is any less supernatural than Satan deciding that Hell is full up so he sends all the dead back to Earth. Saying that the virus explanation is truly science fiction. The virus makes about as much real-world sense as Spider-Man. I’m not sure I understand the aim of your questioning. Originally, you asked why people didn’t like the idea of a supernatural explanation for the walkers, but now it seems you want to argue that the virus explanation is unrealistic. The show says it’s a virus, so it’s a virus. It was shown to be so in fairly exhaustive detail during the band’s visit to the CDC. Is it realistic? No. Could there be a virus that does all the things this virus does? No. But one of the rules of speculative fiction is you get one big cheat. The cheat here is, “there is a virus that lays dormant in humans and causes their corpses to reanimate upon death.” Until someone in the show says, “this can’t be a virus, it’s impossible!” we’re left with that as the explanation. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/187 "2012-03-20T18:24:50Z")
Question about modern prisons. Mentioned about is having everybody sleep in their own locked cell, in possession of their key. Do modern prison cell doors actually have individual keys or are they are electronically controlled and would have unlocked automatically once the last power went out? ---
**Author:** ![Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8dc957/32.png) [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Christopher_Robin_Davies)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/188 "2012-03-20T18:35:31Z")
> [@Scupper](#): > > I’m not sure I understand the aim of your questioning. Originally, you asked why people didn’t like the idea of a supernatural explanation for the walkers, but now it seems you want to argue that the virus explanation is unrealistic. > > The show says it’s a virus, so it’s a virus. It was shown to be so in fairly exhaustive detail during the band’s visit to the CDC. > > Is it realistic? No. > > Could there be a virus that does all the things this virus does? No. > > But one of the rules of speculative fiction is you get one big cheat. The cheat here is, “there is a virus that lays dormant in humans and causes their corpses to reanimate upon death.” Until someone in the show says, “this can’t be a virus, it’s impossible!” we’re left with that as the explanation. I think the virus explanation is equally as unrealistic as the supernatural one but anyway I do not think it really matters because even from my limited viewing it seems pretty obvious that none of the characters really know. Also I don’t think the origin of the zombies changes the moral dilemmas in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/189 "2012-03-20T18:39:57Z")
> [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](#): > > I think the virus explanation is equally as unrealistic as the supernatural one but anyway I do not think it really matters because even from my limited viewing it seems pretty obvious that none of the characters really know. It’s unrealistic, but not outright fantasy, which a supernatural explanation would by definition be. Jenner, the character they met at the CDC in the S1 finale, was certainly in a position to know, and he conveyed that knowledge to the other characters with CT scans and other data. It’s a virus. They all know it. The only thing they _didn’t_ all know was that they already carry it, which they now also know. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/190 "2012-03-20T18:44:12Z")
Of interest would be why\*, if they already have the virus, getting bit causes you turn without dying first. \*of interest if I lived in the world, not so much of interest as a viewer of the show. I’d prefer they make no attempt to explain it at all, since no explanation short of “god did it and he’s magical” can really cover all the bases and make any sense. ---
**Author:** ![crookedteeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b4bc9f/32.png) [@crookedteeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crookedteeth)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/191 "2012-03-20T19:06:09Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > Of interest would be why\*, if they already have the virus, getting bit causes you turn without dying first. > > \*of interest if I lived in the world, not so much of interest as a viewer of the show. I’d prefer they make no attempt to explain it at all, since no explanation short of “god did it and he’s magical” can really cover all the bases and make any sense. I think getting bit just kills you with a virus, maybe a different strain of the one that we now know they all have. This causes fever and other things that eventually lead to your death. Doesn’t matter how you die, you’re going to turn anyway. If I’m correct about this, and I may very well not be, the bite kills you. You then reanimate the same way you would if you died from anything other than head trauma. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/192 "2012-03-20T19:07:28Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > Of interest would be why\*, if they already have the virus, getting bit causes you turn without dying first. Getting bitten causes a fever and death, and then you turn. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/193 "2012-03-20T19:16:29Z")
So … I wonder where they’ll pick up next season. Immediately? I’m thinking they’re going to need to fast-forward a little to make Lori and the baby anything but an eventual thing to deal with. And I’m interested in what old Olive Oyl is going to look like pregnant. I’m all primed to be judgey about how the pregnancy is depicted, along with breastfeeding and nutrition. And of course if the kid comes out with gigantic earlobes, we’ll KNOW who the father is. Also I wish they’d run by Kroger or some other store. A got a lot of enjoyment out of the descriptions of abandoned stores in _The Stand_, and I like the episode from Season 1 in the department store. Plus zombies can pop out from clothes racks, maybe with bras or other unmentionables hanging off them. Doesn’t that sound fun? ---
**Author:** ![kathmandu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kathmandu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kathmandu)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/194 "2012-03-20T19:19:39Z")
I liked the season finale, but I’m still really bummed that they killed off Shane. I thought he was the only one who seemed to get that they were living in a different world now, and the regular rules don’t apply anymore. Rick isn’t a good leader. The big WTF moment for me in the finale was his big “Rickocracy” speech where he took credit for getting them off the farm. What? The only thing he managed to do was burn down the barn and get poor Jimmy et. The rest of them got themselves to safety with no help from him. Just about every important decision Rick has had to make has been the wrong one. Risking Herschel and Glen to save Randall from the zombies and not being able to make the tough decision and put Randall down when he was clearly a threat show that he’s 1. too soft hearted and 2. unable to foresee the natural consequences of his (in)actions. His dithering over doing the “right” thing is going to get his people killed. Shane had his faults, but at least he was willing to do what was necessary to protect the group. Like it or not, nice guys now wind up as zombie chow. I hope next season sees Rick become a little bit more Shane-like, or have another character introduced who can serve as a voice of reason to temper Rick’s goody-goody tendencies. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/195 "2012-03-20T19:23:00Z")
> [@kathmandu](#): > > I liked the season finale, but I’m still really bummed that they killed off Shane. I thought he was the only one who seemed to get that they were living in a different world now, and the regular rules don’t apply anymore. It’s not that Shane “got” the new rules. It’s that he reveled in them. He relished them. They allowed him the freedom to do what his id always wanted to do. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/196 "2012-03-20T19:32:50Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Getting bitten causes a fever and death, and then you turn. Obviously. But why? Do you have a different virus once turned? Some other mechanisms that activates the virus already in you? It is just normal blood infection from exposure to rotten flesh? Like I said, I don’t need an explanation. However, if I were in the group, I be doing a lot more to try and explore the mechanism for things. Another aside. Just as zombies are as fast as necessary for suspense, they turn as fast as necessary too. Good thing the two guys they killed in the bar didn’t turn as quickly as Randall and Shane did. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/197 "2012-03-20T19:43:49Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > Do modern prison cell doors actually have individual keys or are they are electronically controlled and would have unlocked automatically once the last power went out? Pick up some bicycle locks along with a few cases of .45 auto at Wal-Mart. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/198 "2012-03-20T19:48:19Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > I’m not sure why people are up in arms about the prison. I just think it’s a bad idea to watch them holed up stationary for another season, though I admit a prison does SEEM an ideal fortification to survive something like this. > [@obfusciatrist](#): > > Another aside. Just as zombies are as fast as necessary for suspense, they turn as fast as necessary too. Good thing the two guys they killed in the bar didn’t turn as quickly as Randall and Shane did. According to the writers, the state of mind is an important part of why Shane turned so quickly. He was in the middle of a murder, he was full of rage and impotence, and then his best friend knifed him. The flashes were supposed to illustrate the fact that he was turning so quickly because he was full of all those aggressive emotions when he died. The others we’ve seen die (Amy, the guys in the bar, Randall) weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/199 "2012-03-20T19:48:25Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > Good thing the two guys they killed in the bar didn’t turn as quickly as Randall and Shane did. Rick shot them both in the head, so there was no chance of either of them turning. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/200 "2012-03-20T20:18:21Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Rick shot them both in the head, so there was no chance of either of them turning. You’re right, I forgot that. And yuck if state of mind at death impacts how quickly you turn. But that’s just a personal yuck. If those are the rules and they apply them consistently, so be it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171.md?page=11)