# The Walking Dead; 2.13 "Beside the Dying Fire" SEASON FINALE (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 18, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171 "2012-03-18T23:16:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/221 "2012-03-21T04:49:21Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > …Do modern prison cell doors actually have individual keys or are they are electronically controlled and would have unlocked automatically once the last power went out? There’s absolutely no way any prison would have cell locks that default to “unlock” in the even of a power failure. They’d have to manually open each individually door. It’s an open question as to what the staff would do with the inmates. I think just letting them go free is highly unlikely (though I alot of inmates probally would’ve been put to work digging mass graves/open air mass crematiopns for the state before thinks completely collapsed). The warden probally dusted off some Cold War era “In case of nuclear war” plan. I imagine either the inamates were simply massacred or more likely just left to starve to death in their cells ala **The Stand**. > [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > …Also I wish they’d run by Kroger or some other store. A got a lot of enjoyment out of the descriptions of abandoned stores in _The Stand_, and I like the episode from Season 1 in the department store. Plus zombies can pop out from clothes racks, maybe with bras or other unmentionables hanging off them. Doesn’t that sound fun? Great way to work in some product placement too. Home Depot is based in Atlanta. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/222 "2012-03-21T05:20:21Z")
Regarding the question concerning the cell doors of a prison, my brother is a sergeant at a state prison in Kentucky. I’ve sent him a text message about the question, and will post his response once he answers me. He’s used to questions like this from me. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/223 "2012-03-21T05:29:32Z")
Yeah, I don’t know why I was thinking doors might unlock in total power failure. I doubt prisons are designed with total societal collapse in mind. But I still wonder if they actually have individual keyholes. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/224 "2012-03-21T05:39:03Z")
That’s right, the doors would default to locked in a power failure (duh on me). So, do you get a generator and plug it in long enough to get the doors you want opened, then unplug it again? Would that work? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/225 "2012-03-21T15:07:46Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Do walkers get up after they’ve fallen down? I should remember if we’ve seen this, but I don’t. I know we’ve seen them crawl, but do they get up? The one that killed Dale fell down while going for Carl and later was walking around. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/226 "2012-03-21T15:18:58Z")
I seem to recall in Louisiana during hurricane Katrina prisoners serving time for stuff like drugs or theft were let free with instructions to contact law enforcement when safe, because the jail or prison was flooding and there was no way to transfer them. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/227 "2012-03-21T15:26:32Z")
There are at least a couple other walkers that have gotten up but the most obvious dawned on me… walker Shane got up. They have to be able to get up because no one dies and turns into a walker standing up. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/228 "2012-03-21T18:32:02Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > Yeah, I don’t know why I was thinking doors might unlock in total power failure. I doubt prisons are designed with total societal collapse in mind. > > But I still wonder if they actually have individual keyholes. Here’s what my brother has said so far: “The general pop doors all have keys. The mental health unit is electronic.” I’ve asked him more detailed questions, describing the situation we’ve discussed, and am awaiting further answers. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/229 "2012-03-21T18:38:31Z")
Tell him to sign up. If we can’t perform zombie experiments, at least we could grill a prison guard. I mean, _ask questions of a prison guard._ ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/230 "2012-03-21T19:21:12Z")
Good clarification! I’m sure some zombie wannabees were procuring BBQ sauce. ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/231 "2012-03-21T20:15:32Z")
_takes off his chef’s hat, grumbling_ ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/232 "2012-03-21T20:18:03Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Yeah, after the video of the test subject, Andrea said “You have no idea what it is, do you?” > Jenner replies “It could be microbial, viral, parasitic, fungal…” > Jacqui: “…or the wrath of God?” > Jenner “…there is that.” > > I don’t like a supernatural explanation either, but it wasn’t nailed down as a virus. He did later say the French thought they were close to a solution before they lost power. I wouldn’t think a supernatural disease would have a solution, but I know very little about supernatural diseases 😉 I stand corrected, and offer my apologies to Christopher Robin Davies. I guess the supernatural explanation is still on the table, potentially. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/233 "2012-03-21T20:30:46Z")
> [@kathmandu](#): > > I liked the season finale, but I’m still really bummed that they killed off Shane. I thought he was the only one who seemed to get that they were living in a different world now, and the regular rules don’t apply anymore. > > Shane had his faults, but at least he was willing to do what was necessary to protect the group. Like it or not, nice guys now wind up as zombie chow. Really? The regular rules of “don’t hit on your best friend’s wife”, “don’t murder people”, “don’t act like a fucking jerk when you live with people” don’t apply just because there are zombies around? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/234 "2012-03-21T20:39:59Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Really? The regular rules of “don’t hit on your best friend’s wife”, “don’t murder people”, “don’t act like a fucking jerk when you live with people” don’t apply just because there are zombies around? Quoted for truth. Thanks for articulating what’s bugged me about many of the comments re: Shane, Otis, Rick’s “wimpiness”, etc. On line discussions about this series have been sort of a workshop on why societies need actual armed law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/235 "2012-03-21T20:43:28Z")
“Don’t murder people”, if you’re referring to Randall, as a potential dangerous outsider, is actually exactly the sort of rules you have to re-evaluate because there are zombies around. For that matter, “don’t hit on your dead best friend’s wife even though you’re experiencing the most primal survival situation that humans have ever overcome, with your world collapsing around you, with her being completely dependent on your protection, with you needing some sort of comfort and normalcy” is another situation in which the apocalypse plays a role. And… really, “don’t act like a jerk when the group you’re with is doing fucking idiotic things all the time that will get you all killed”… yeah, that’s an issue too. So yeah, those sorts of things are different in a post apocalyptic world. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/236 "2012-03-21T21:04:27Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > So yeah, those sorts of things are different in a post apocalyptic world. I agree. First thing to do, whack folks like Shayne. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/237 "2012-03-21T21:13:59Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > “Don’t murder people”, if you’re referring to Randall, as a potential dangerous outsider, is actually exactly the sort of rules you have to re-evaluate because there are zombies around. Yeah, no one ever thinks THEY are the maruading band of rampaging psychos. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > For that matter, “don’t hit on your dead best friend’s wife even though you’re experiencing the most primal survival situation that humans have ever overcome, with your world collapsing around you, with her being completely dependent on your protection, with you needing some sort of comfort and normalcy” is another situation in which the apocalypse plays a role. Yeah, well Rick ain’t been “dead” going on two seasons. Go hit on the blond girl. Laurie Holden is much hotter than Rick’s trailer trash wife anyway. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > And… really, “don’t act like a jerk when the group you’re with is doing fucking idiotic things all the time that will get you all killed”… yeah, that’s an issue too. > > So yeah, those sorts of things are different in a post apocalyptic world. I actually don’t see Shane helping the situation at all. Mostly he just went around beating his chest and proclaiming they had to “cut their loses” all the time. When you are down to a handful of people, there isn’t exactly a whole lot of losses to “cut”. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/238 "2012-03-21T21:18:24Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Yeah, no one ever thinks THEY are the maruading band of rampaging psychos. Irrelevant - the other group should consider killing a captured member of “our” group too if the circumstances were reversed. > [@](#): > > Yeah, well Rick ain’t been “dead” going on two seasons. Go hit on the blond girl. Laurie Holden is much hotter than Rick’s trailer trash wife anyway. Ah, I thought we were talking about the relatonship before Rick gets back. Shane did get all rapey when he couldn’t let Lori go, which is definitely a problem, although he seemed to have finally let it go until Laurie did her toying with him bullshit that ended up getting him killed. > [@](#): > > I actually don’t see Shane helping the situation at all. Mostly he just went around beating his chest and proclaiming they had to “cut their loses” all the time. When you are down to a handful of people, there isn’t exactly a whole lot of losses to “cut”. Well, on specific issues, like Randall, or keeping walkers in the barn, he felt like the group was making stupid decisions that could seriously compromise their survival. Shane lead the group and got them through tougher times just fine - then Rick comes along, starts making stupid decisions, endangers the group - he’s understandably pretty pissed off. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/239 "2012-03-21T21:31:25Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > “Don’t murder people”, if you’re referring to Randall, as a potential dangerous outsider, is actually exactly the sort of rules you have to re-evaluate because there are zombies around. Actually, I thought of – Otis? the guy from the farm – that Shane shot to draw the walkers off himself when they were gathering medical supplies to save the kid. And he did it in a needlessly ugly way. Instead of just killing him and providing fresh meat to divert the walkers from himself he instead shot ?Otis? in the leg, leaving him to be eaten alive. That’s when I concluded that he wasn’t just an opportunistic cretin (for glomming onto his best friend’s wife, which I could understand since it was reasonable to believe that Rick was dead) but a completely selfish antisocial danger to the group. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/240 "2012-03-21T21:47:00Z")
Yeah, the “selfish antisocial danger” who offered his life first, to let Otis be the one to return with the equipment. I seem to be the only one who remembers this. When Shane realized that they both couldn’t make it, he offers Otis the chance to be the one to get away, to take the medical supplies back to the farm, while he serves as the distraction. Otis refused to leave him. So Shane was forced to make Otis the one to stay. But Shane offered up to sacrifice himself to save Otis and Carl. And somehow the conclusion people draw from this scene is that Shane is a selfish sociopath. As far as “needlessly ugly” - the zombies have clearly preferred live targets to dead ones. They’ll leave dead meat to chase a living target. Otis had to be alive for the distraction to be effective. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171.md?page=13)