# The Walking Dead; 2.13 "Beside the Dying Fire" SEASON FINALE (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 18, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171 "2012-03-18T23:16:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/61 "2012-03-19T12:00:19Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Rick’s warped reasoning may have made sense in his head, but like you said I think he would have been smart enough to tell _someone_ that, oh, BTW, if anyone dies during the night you gotta clock’em in the head right away or they’ll kill the rest of us, or at the very least anyone sick needs to be restrained. > > Also, when Rick was defending himself to the group about killing Shane, I’m surprised that he never had Carl defend him. Carl saw enough that he could have verified that Rick was acting in self defense. > > But as I always say, I really like this show so I have to remind myself not to poke holes in it. It’s to easy and the show seems to fall apart. We have to remember to treat it more like a sitcom then something like Breaking Bad. Yeah, Rick should have shared that, but I think he didn’t believe it (or didn’t want to). Probably justified it to himself in a “don’t panic people” sense. Not the best choice - but people aren’t always going to be making the best choices in a zombie apocalypse. I think there was a line that Carl didn’t actually see much, and I know the dialogue between Carl and Rick supports that. If he came up late, he could easily have misread what happened (partially because he wouldn’t want to think that his two father figures would be trying to kill each other). And finally - yeah, it’s a zombie show, so it’s not going to hold up to a lot of introspection. It would be nice if they were a little more internally consistent, but I try to enjoy it for what is (while nitpicking myself). ---
**Author:** ![limegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@limegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/limegreen)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/62 "2012-03-19T12:06:18Z")
I think it was in the Talking Dead part that they emphasized that Rick didn’t necessarily believe what Jenner had told him – he was a leetle crazed by that time – until Shane really did rise up without being bitten. So it was a secret, but not one he actually believed wholeheartedly without proof. Shane was the proof. Then he did share it with the group. I don’t blame Rick for that – the women are hysterical enough without adding ‘rumors’. ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/63 "2012-03-19T12:45:42Z")
Overall I like the episode, but I did expect one or more major characters would die, not just the extras who never really had much screen time. I thought last week they had backed up the vehicles to the house in case they needed to make a quick get away. Not sure why the women had to to go so far to get to one. And where was Carol going? It probably would have been a good idea to set up some rendevous points ahead of time, in case people got separated. And not leaving any kind of note for Andrea was cold. Finally, what’s the one vehicle they had that could hold a lot of people and supplies? Instead of using the RV as a get-away vehicle, they decide to put one person in it (the others doubled up) to drive around on the farm. And of course, Jimmy decides when rescuing Rick and Carl to put the thing in park and get out of the drivers seat to do…not sure what. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/64 "2012-03-19T12:54:54Z")
> [@JeffB](#): > > Finally, what’s the one vehicle they had that could hold a lot of people and supplies? Instead of using the RV as a get-away vehicle, they decide to put one person in it (the others doubled up) to drive around on the farm. And of course, Jimmy decides when rescuing Rick and Carl to put the thing in park and get out of the drivers seat to do…not sure what. They weren’t actually planning on getting away at first - the plan was to thin the herd and then lead it off. Jimmy was another example of non-optimal thinking under pressure. He presumably opened the door to let Rick and Carl in (unless the zombies finally figured out latches). Not smart, but not any dumber than Rick and Carl climbing down off the roof (they didn’t know Jimmy was dead yet). Lay down flat and yell at Jimmy to drive off (I say from the safety of my couch). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/65 "2012-03-19T13:10:22Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > I liked the idea that the helicopter was herding the walkers I don’t think they were being herded as such. My impression is that with their low intelligence and decision-making capabilities, that once they start moving in a particular direction, they kind of just keep going until there’s something to distract them. > [@JeffB](#): > > And not leaving any kind of note for Andrea was cold. They had seen her go down, under a walker. There was no reason to believe she was still alive. Carol saw it, and I think Glenn might have seen it too. They didn’t know that the walker was already dead. > [@msmith537](#): > > Keep in mind, Lori was sort of a psycho bitch before the whole zombie thing. I’m not sure what you mean by psycho bitch. She has some very annoying personality traits, but she seems like a pretty normal person to me. > [@Tangent](#): > > Lori needs to die. > [@AuntiePam](#): > > when Lori turned on Rick (so what if your son had to put Shane down – Carl would have been next, you dumb bitch!) I’m really astonished at all this hostility towards Lori. I don’t particularly like her as a person, but I think her reactions are very believable. It’s only been, what, a couple of months since the world went to shit? It takes a lot longer than that to get used to things. And even in cases in which you might intellectually understand why your husband had to kill his best friend and your erstwhile lover, it can still be a shock that takes some time to get used to, if ever. There are a lot smaller things that can mess with a couple’s relationship. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/66 "2012-03-19T13:19:56Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I’m really astonished at all this hostility towards Lori. I don’t particularly like her as a person, but I think her reactions are very believable. Urging Rick to do something about Shayne while they were indulging in marital pastime was rather manipulative. I generally agree with you, though. ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/67 "2012-03-19T13:32:17Z")
> [@coolbyrne](#): > > So Rick, the law enforcement agent, and Herschel, the local farmer, had no idea there was a big ass mutherfuckin’ penitentiary just down the road? Ooookay. Just down the road?? Go watch it again - when the truck starts to sputter out of gas, Rick says “we’ve been running on red for an hour.” They were driving for several hours. How many miles do you think that equates to? ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/68 "2012-03-19T13:43:40Z")
And FWIW I loved the episode. Seems to me too many people complain and nitpick yet they keep watching. It’s about Zombies. You need to tell yourself that each and every time you find a critique. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/69 "2012-03-19T13:44:39Z")
And I don’t think Rick is from Georgia, is he? I thought he was from Kentucky. Or is that something I’ve picked up from the people who have read the comic books? ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/70 "2012-03-19T13:56:31Z")
While I haven’t read the comics, I think it is made clear in them that Rick, Lori and Carl are all from Kentucky (near where I live! TWD ground zero! :)). I don’t think this is the case with the series, though, despite the hospital from the pilot being Harrison County Hospital, the county where creator Kirkland is from. But that could just be an insider detail and not prove anything as far as the location goes. I give nearly all the “stupid” actions in this series a pass — these are shell-shocked survivors of a zombie apocalypse! Of course they’re going behave like idiots. I will say I was really irritated by Lori recoiling in horror from Rick, though. From this I deduce she is, in fact, a psycho bitch. She even admitted it in the flashback, when she’s chatting with her friend at the school, waiting for Carl to get out (and when Shane comes up and tells her Rick has been shot). She says something like, “He won’t talk to me. If I’m acting like a bitch, I wish he’d just tell me I’m acting like a bitch!” Stupid bitch. The answer to that dilemma is “don’t act like a bitch.” Also remember Rick told Shane in the car in the opening scene of the series that she had said to him, in front of Carl, “I don’t think I love you any more.” He was pretty pissed that she would say that in front of a child. Rightfully so. Lori can get munched, for all I care, Frye boots and all! ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/71 "2012-03-19T14:07:13Z")
Re: Lori - Didn’t season 1, episode 1 start with the premise that Rick and Lori were not doing well? Wasn’t there divorce papers in the mix as well? My baseline assumption, whether it was from the show or comics was that they didn’t exactly have a strong marriage at the time Rick got shot. I still don’t like her, she is a less than useless mother (watch your f-cking kid!) and extremely manipulative. There is no other explanation for her behavior the last few episodes. She practically talks Rick into needing to kill Shane. She practically gives Shane an open invite that they could be together again. Then she turns on Rick after he kills Shane in self-defense. Granted, Shane was bat-shit crazy anyway and going down this road but she helped set the whole thing in motion. I thought this episode, and the last 3 in total, really made up for the piss-poor start of the season. Now, in hindsight I can see why this season played out the way it did. They had to slowly build up the life on the farm, the relationship dynamics, etc. to make that final 3 episodes really pay off. Not high-art or anything but in my opinion it all came together incredibly. From this point in the story with the comics, I also started to lose some interest. To me, it got entirely too comic booky with over the top villains and “good guys/gals”. (I don’t think that is a spoiler, just backing up another poster’s opinion already stated). I eventually stopped reading them, not sure how many comics came out after I stopped but it lost a lot of interest for me. I’m hoping with the changes they’ve made for the t.v. show they also continue to change the story line to avoid this. I’ll watch next season for sure as in the comic some key events do happen that I’m hoping they also carry into the t.v. show but I hope they tone down some of the other characters/events. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/72 "2012-03-19T14:22:35Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > I’ve kept a timeline and posted it a couple times in various threads. I finally updated the second half of season two, so here it is, up-to-date until Season 3 starts. > > **Season 2** > > **Day 7** > > … > > **Day 23** > _Episode 213_ - The Battle of Hershel’s Farm at night, meet on the road in the morning and end in the evening around the fire. > > … 2 weeks on the farm?! it felt like months - they had even talked about settling down and raising a baby! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/73 "2012-03-19T14:24:14Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > Then she turns on Rick after he kills Shane in self-defense. I think it’s an exaggeration to say she “turned on” him. She’s shocked and angry. There hasn’t been enough time to see whether she has “turned on” him. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/74 "2012-03-19T14:30:20Z")
Lori is a raving psycho bitch and I cannot wait until she gets et. Or killed in some fashion. Gods, I just can’t stand her. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/75 "2012-03-19T14:32:31Z")
Statements like Glenn’s “I love you” to Maggie make it seem more time has passed. He said, “It’s been true for while now and I should have said it sooner.” Maybe it’s like wartime and you fall in love in days? At any rate, while I’m not exactly doubting **Fubaya** good work in creating the timeline, I think there are some leaps of time that aren’t strictly covered by what’s seen on the screen. It’s not _24_, after all. Did that series implant some expectation of this sort? ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/76 "2012-03-19T14:33:33Z")
Oh and if they’ve been driving for hours, how is it that Andrea, on foot, can wind up near the prison too … if that’s where this Mystery Minion Wrangler came from? ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/77 "2012-03-19T14:33:36Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think it’s an exaggeration to say she “turned on” him. She’s shocked and angry. There hasn’t been enough time to see whether she has “turned on” him. Fair enough - she recoiled in horror, grasped the son she never seems to keep an eye on, and is acting all butt-hurt that Rick killed Shane. The same Shane she was having a relationship with, then wasn’t because Rick was back, then almost got raped by Shane, then put the thought in Rick’s head that they need to kill Shane, then put the thought in Shane’s head that she still wanted him and it could be his baby cause she just doesn’t know, and now is so horrified at what has happened. But lets give this woman the benefit of the doubt, perhaps she hasn’t “turned on” Rick. After all, Lori is pretty good at manipulating men to get the protection she wants from them… ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/78 "2012-03-19T14:38:30Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Oh and if they’ve been driving for hours, how is it that Andrea, on foot, can wind up near the prison too … if that’s where this Mystery Minion Wrangler came from? That is an assumption that she came from the prison, nothing in the episode indicated that she was from there. I know time gets a bit fuzzy on this show but really they went out looking for Randall late afternoon. The sun set and we had the Shane/Rick face-off and subsequent zombie attack almost immediately afterwards. The sun was back up when they had to stop due to gas. Seems to me that they were driving all night and into at least morning of the next day which means they’ve put some serious miles between them and the farm. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/79 "2012-03-19T14:43:58Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > Fair enough - she recoiled in horror, grasped the son she never seems to keep an eye on, and is acting all butt-hurt that Rick killed Shane. The same Shane she was having a relationship with, then wasn’t because Rick was back, then almost got raped by Shane, then put the thought in Rick’s head that they need to kill Shane, then put the thought in Shane’s head that she still wanted him and it could be his baby cause she just doesn’t know, and now is so horrified at what has happened. > > But lets give this woman the benefit of the doubt, perhaps she hasn’t “turned on” Rick. After all, Lori is pretty good at manipulating men to get the protection she wants from them… Iit is very common for the reality of death, killing, and murder to throw people off, regardless of whether you liked someone or not, or whether you had thought you wanted someone dead. It’s just human. People are complicated, and such complexity by itself doesn’t support “psycho” conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Billy\_Baroo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/76d3ee/32.png) [@Billy\_Baroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billy_Baroo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171/80 "2012-03-19T14:44:07Z")
Yes! Superb chaos and terror, topped with a compelling intro to S3: Ricktatorship. I had totally forgotten about the 'armless pet zombies from the books. The arrival of Michonne looked completely badass on the tube. I was literally squirming with discomfort when Jimmy was dying. _Talking Dead_ informed that being eaten alive is that actor’s greatest fear, so that’s some real terror in that scene. Hershel has been saying for a few eps now: we need to listen to Rick. It seems like even in a time of relative quiet he already understood that things like second guessing and engaging in debates where everyone’s voice gets heard have no place in their situation in this world. When Rick gave his speech at the campfire, you could see each group member, who had grown up in a world with lofty ideals of group discussion and talking at length about your feelings, grudgingly choose to STFU when faced with staying with a killer (the devil you know) or taking their chances on their own. I saw Lori’s strange reaction to the news as nothing more than horror. You never know your spouse as well as you think you do. You build their character, motivations, and inner dialog in your head. Rick stopped kvetching and surprised the shit out of her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-2-13-beside-the-dying-fire-season-finale-open-spoilers/616171.md?page=5)