# The Walking Dead; 3.08 "Made to Suffer" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 3, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799 "2012-12-03T00:07:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/41 "2012-12-03T13:02:49Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Have Rick’s people always had those weapons? What happened to being low on ammunition, from an episode or two back? And did I see Maggie put a bullet in someone who had been shot and was down on the ground? She was putting a bullet in the bald guy’s head so he wouldn’t rise. Another thing: I saw elsewhere that apparently Rick froze when that guy with the gun was approaching him because he saw him as Shane. I completely missed that. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/42 "2012-12-03T13:25:04Z")
Interesting cliffhanger for the hiatus, plus a lot of action. Good episode. One thing I’m surprised hasn’t been pointed out here (and I usually am opposed to nitpicking of minutiae) is Maggie’s failure to shoot Merle when she had the opportunity. Can’t see any reason she would not have pulled the trigger at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/43 "2012-12-03T13:41:11Z")
> [@Just\_Ed](#): > > One thing I’m surprised hasn’t been pointed out here (and I usually am opposed to nitpicking of minutiae) is Maggie’s failure to shoot Merle when she had the opportunity. Can’t see any reason she would not have pulled the trigger at that point. Yeah, that’s a good point I hadn’t thought about. I could see Glen hesitating since Merle was part of the original group, but Maggie has no ties to him. I guess it could be she hesitates to kill the living (although she shanked no-name with little qualms). ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/44 "2012-12-03T13:48:59Z")
> [@Just\_Ed](#): > > One thing I’m surprised hasn’t been pointed out here (and I usually am opposed to nitpicking of minutiae) is Maggie’s failure to shoot Merle when she had the opportunity. Can’t see any reason she would not have pulled the trigger at that point. I was screaming at the TV at this point. WTF? ---
**Author:** ![montag01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@montag01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/montag01)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/45 "2012-12-03T14:09:05Z")
Loving this show a lot, despite (and sometimes because of) its inconsistencies. Considering how many walkers are in the woods, I sort of thought the group might try to bait enough to follow them, then lead 40-50 of them to Woodbury and use them as a distraction. While the people on the wall are occupied with this sudden, huge number of walkers at their gates, Rick’s group sneaks in from the other side. I guess it would be too dangerous trying to lure them, though. That said, with all the gun fire that went down, and considering how many walkers are shown to be in the woods, there really should be a huge herd shambling toward the town–or even already at the gates–from every direction. Yet that doesn’t appear to be the case. The fight between Michonne and the Governor was terrific–with some great acting by David Morrissey, who made me feel genuinely sorry for his character despite how his most loathsome qualities were highlighted in the previous episode. The ongoing disappointment to me is Merle. As this season started, the storyline seemed to hint that this character had a little more going on than just being a nasty racist asshole. He serves his purpose by being uncomplicated, but I’d rather see the writers going for the touchdown rather than punting, especially when you have an actor as good as Michael Rooker in the part. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/46 "2012-12-03T14:41:19Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Wait, are we talking about Tiny? Because he was definitely bitten. Yes Tiny, and no he wasn’t bitten. They specifically showed a zombie shackled hand and foot breaking of his hand and stabbing him with his wrist bone in the shoulder. Then everyone pretty much acted like he was toast just as he had been bitten. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/47 "2012-12-03T14:50:51Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > I was screaming at the TV at this point. WTF? I was a bit perplexed, as well. He’s obviously a dangerous character, why not shoot him? I do find Merle fascinating, though, and I look forward to watching him interact with Darryl when the show comes back in February. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/48 "2012-12-03T15:18:19Z")
Okay, so how did the Governor know that Darryl was Merle’s brother? They just captured him, and you know he wouldn’t have said shit, so short of having a photo of him, the guv couldn’t have known who he was. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/49 "2012-12-03T15:26:19Z")
Not a bad episode. TWD is always at it’s best when things are happening, and at it’s worst when characters are talking. One thing I noticed: in the season premiere, while Rick’s group was clearing out the prison grounds, the gunshots were CGI’d in, with no recoil or shell casings being ejected. It looked horrible and cheap. In this episode, they must have stepped up the budget for blanks, because we got casings and recoil. I had thought that they’d do more with the idea that Woodbury folks are soft and complacent, and Rick’s gang has been hardened by the road. Glenn’s improvised weapons served that idea, but not much else did. The treatment of women and minorities continues to be embarassing. Once we met Tyreese, I too thought “So long, Oscar.” Andrea is defined by being whiny, foolishly arrogant, and by the men she couples with. Maggie and Michonne can’t kill evil people who’ve harmed them when presented with the opportunity. That’s another question I had, are we meant to take Andrea as being competent? She insists that warning residents is beneath her and that she should be in the thick of the fighting (and blows off her assigned duties to do so)…is she meant to be a fool, or to be underestamated by others? > [@Reverse](#): > > Also, people, it’s not rocket science: zombie bites are venomous. It’s one of those things that is a cornerstone of most zombie fiction. Just go with it. This makes the characters’ refusal to wear sleeves infuriating, some sort of skin protection (duct tape, leather jacket, anything!) would have saved the lives of T-Dog, Jim, Big Tiny, the girl from the new group, and also Hershel’s leg. And I wonder when we’ll get the trope of a zombie bite being concealed from the group… > [@AuntiePam](#): > > Didn’t it look like Penny was responding to the music, and to her dad’s voice? I suppose it could have been bad acting, but she seemed to calm down a bit when he spoke to her. I felt for him. I think she was responding, and it’s another bit of evidence that some zombies are capable of reasoning and memory. But, it was somewhat ambiguous. > [@AuntiePam](#): > > Have Rick’s people always had those weapons? What happened to being low on ammunition, from an episode or two back? > [@AngelSoft](#): > > I’m assuming they gained access to the weapons stored in the prison. I mean, you’re not gonna find smoke bombs many other places at that point. They already had the M4 and the AK in the season premiere; when they cleared out the prison yard, Carol manned the AK and Hershel the M4. The flashbangs and smoke grenades were taken from the armored SWAT-looking zombies, after they dispatched them and secured part of the prison itself, there’s a scene of their new gear (pistols, grenades, batons) spread out on a table, and it’s discussed for a bit. As to being low on ammunition, “low” is such a subjective term it’s difficult to know what they mean. For my guns, “low” would be less than 1,000 rounds. For Rick, “low” might be under 500, or 100, there’s no way to know. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/50 "2012-12-03T15:27:27Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Okay, so how did the Governor know that Darryl was Merle’s brother? They just captured him, and you know he wouldn’t have said shit, so short of having a photo of him, the guv couldn’t have known who he was. Merle said his brother was part of the group, and I suspect Daryl would have asked to see Merle when he was first captured. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/51 "2012-12-03T15:30:48Z")
Andrea is turning into a blonde Lori. I hope the lights finally went on in her head when the Gov hauled Daryl out in front of the bloodthirsty crowd. Michonne should have told Lori that the Gov sent his men after her to kill her after she left and that she had now hooked up with Rick and his group. And mentioning that Carl and Maggie had been taken hostage by Merle wouldn’t have hurt either. Silence is your best option to a point, but she should have shown her hand. I cannot figure out what is up with Maggie. She grew up on a farm, has been with Rick and the crew for close to a year in close quarters and is an efficient zombie killer but she still has trouble with her survival instinct. Glen has honed his just fine. Good job with taking out the zombie bones and using them as weapons. Carol and the convict in the I thought you was a lesbian cause you got the short hair scene was funny. They need to start telling people that they lock in the outer room at the prison a little bit more information. I know I would all out panic if I thought I was being helped and then suddenly found myself locked in like I was their prisoner. Just a little no offense, but we don’t know you so to keep us safe until the rest of our group gets back you are going to be our guests in the 100% zombie secure area with food and water, please get some rest, no one is going to get hurt speech. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/52 "2012-12-03T15:40:49Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > They need to start telling people that they lock in the outer room at the prison a little bit more information. I know I would all out panic if I thought I was being helped and then suddenly found myself locked in like I was their prisoner. Just a little no offense, but we don’t know you so to keep us safe until the rest of our group gets back you are going to be our guests in the 100% zombie secure area with food and water, please get some rest, no one is going to get hurt speech. That all happened off camera. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/53 "2012-12-03T15:47:53Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > They need to start telling people that they lock in the outer room at the prison a little bit more information. I know I would all out panic if I thought I was being helped and then suddenly found myself locked in like I was their prisoner. Just a little no offense, but we don’t know you so to keep us safe until the rest of our group gets back you are going to be our guests in the 100% zombie secure area with food and water, please get some rest, no one is going to get hurt speech. _Lost_ proved that the key to a successful TV show is making sure your characters never communicate in any sort of vaguely reasonable way with other characters. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/54 "2012-12-03T15:52:50Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > I cannot figure out what is up with Maggie. She grew up on a farm, has been with Rick and the crew for close to a year in close quarters and is an efficient zombie killer but she still has trouble with her survival instinct. She showed absolutely no hesitation in putting her arm bones in the next of the red shirt. She didn’t shoot Merle because he is of narrative importance to the story (same reason zombies are invisible until just before they pause and let you know they’re there before biting you, or always move slightly slower than whoever they’re chasing). As for an in-story reason, maybe it wasn’t hesitation to shoot Merle but hesitation to shoot someone inches away from someone you don’t want to shoot. But I’d have to watch that bit again to see if she had clear and safe opportunities to shoot him without risking Glenn. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/55 "2012-12-03T16:07:43Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > As for an in-story reason, maybe it wasn’t hesitation to shoot Merle but hesitation to shoot someone inches away from someone you don’t want to shoot. But I’d have to watch that bit again to see if she had clear and safe opportunities to shoot him without risking Glenn. This is a corner the show painted itself into. They show the characters as superhuman marksmen, capable of perfect headshots in all conditions. This is demonstrated by Carl in this very episode. So when they need Maggie to hesitate instead of firing, or to have a (realistically) confused and indecisive gunfight, it rings false because it contradicts what the show has established. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > Lost proved that the key to a successful TV show is making sure your characters never communicate in any sort of vaguely reasonable way with other characters. Yes, this is a tactic to clumsily manufacture drama. The downside is that it alienates the audience from the characters, by making them appear to be idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/56 "2012-12-03T16:17:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Merle said his brother was part of the group, and I suspect Daryl would have asked to see Merle when he was first captured. Doesn’t wash. The governor knew that Merle’s brother was part of the other group, but had no idea what he looked like. If Merle knew his brother had been captured, why bring him in with a bag over his head? I think the writers just figured the drama of the scene would gloss over this rather inept bit of writing. Andrea deserves to die more than ever. What a moron. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/57 "2012-12-03T16:18:24Z")
She knew Merle was Daryl’s brother, killing the brother of the best member of the group might make you hesitate. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/58 "2012-12-03T16:32:54Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Merle said his brother was part of the group, and I suspect Daryl would have asked to see Merle when he was first captured. > [@Chefguy](#): > > Doesn’t wash. The governor knew that Merle’s brother was part of the other group, but had no idea what he looked like. If Merle knew his brother had been captured, why bring him in with a bag over his head? I think the writers just figured the drama of the scene would gloss over this rather inept bit of writing. Not to speak for **John Mace** , but I believe he means that Daryl was captured, asked his guards if he could see Merle, and that this information was passed to The Governor, who kept it from Merle until the big reveal. This is probably the most plausible scenario. > [@Chefguy](#): > > Andrea deserves to die more than ever. What a moron. And a thoroughly unpleasant person: whiny, entitled, arrogant, demanding, promiscuous… ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/59 "2012-12-03T16:43:33Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Not to speak for **John Mace** , but I believe he means that Daryl was captured, asked his guards if he could see Merle, and that this information was passed to The Governor, who kept it from Merle until the big reveal. This is probably the most plausible scenario. Okay, I can buy that, but I’ll continue to grumble about it. 😛 > [@](#): > > And a thoroughly unpleasant person: whiny, entitled, arrogant, demanding, promiscuous… Boy, howdy. Promiscuous doesn’t bother me, but the rest of it makes me a hater. Not having somebody to hate would make for boring TV, though. ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/60 "2012-12-03T16:50:02Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Okay, I can buy that, but I’ll continue to grumble about it. 😛 > > Boy, howdy. Promiscuous doesn’t bother me, but the rest of it makes me a hater. Not having somebody to hate would make for boring TV, though. Yeah all those make me hate her but also because I’ve never really forgiven her for basically telling Beth to go ahead and kill herself. What a bitch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799.md?page=4)