# The Walking Dead; 3.08 "Made to Suffer" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 3, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799 "2012-12-03T00:07:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/61 "2012-12-03T16:51:56Z")
I thought she kinda had a point on that one. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/62 "2012-12-03T16:57:18Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Okay, I can buy that, but I’ll continue to grumble about it. 😛 If you assume that once The Governor saw that Michonne was alive and well, after Merle assured him that he’d killed her, he quietly issued orders to the other security guys to keep Merle in the dark about Daryl, then it makes sense. When The Governor publicly excoriated Merle, the other security guys who moved to disarm him didn’t seem taken aback, so it seems The Governor had told them that Merle couldn’t be trusted and/or was a traitor. I thought The Governor’s, a despotic ruler with down-home folksy ways, use of “terrorists” to describe Woodbury’s enemies was a bit on the nose. > [@Chefguy](#): > > Boy, howdy. Promiscuous doesn’t bother me, but the rest of it makes me a hater. Not having somebody to hate would make for boring TV, though. There’s “TV hate” where you have a villain who does evil things, and then is killed by the hero. Then you have characters like Andrea, who are just bad people, and no one ever calls them on it. It makes me hate her more than the actual villains. > [@AngelSoft](#): > > Yeah all those make me hate her but also because I’ve never really forgiven her for basically telling Beth to go ahead and kill herself. What a bitch. > [@DigitalC](#): > > I thought she kinda had a point on that one. She didn’t exactly tell her to kill herself, she said "“The pain doesn’t go away, you just make room for it,” and left her alone. I read that as “things are shitty, and will remain so, but you can adjust to it and carry on.” ---
**Author:** ![Meltdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Meltdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meltdown)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/63 "2012-12-03T17:16:37Z")
Here’s a thought I had – we don’t see what transpired between The Governor and Merle after The Governor said “I was attacked” and the very last scene. Is it possible that The Governor came up with a plan so that it would look like he was about to execute Merle and Daryl, but then an “escape” would happen, such that Daryl brings Merle back to the prison, and now The Governor has a man on the inside? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/64 "2012-12-03T17:28:47Z")
Penny was clearly not responding to any stimuli other than the meat in the bowl. That’s why the governor got so angry at the end of that scene. I didn’t understand Michonne’s reaction to hearing zombie noises from behind a locked grate. It would have made more sense for her to see a child and open the door. Add me to those irritated by the quota on living black guys that exists for the show. While I don’t like Andrea, her annoyance with being detailed to doing bedchecks is at least consistent within the character. She was always really gung ho to learn to shoot, and even ended up shooting Daryl in her zeal to take out walkers. I liked the small smile that Daryl started to show during the final scene with Merle. Made me feel like he knew something, had a plan, or was just looking forward to fighting his way out. ---
**Author:** ![BlueOhio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/439d5e/32.png) [@BlueOhio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueOhio)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/65 "2012-12-03T17:45:26Z")
Meltdown, you might be onto something - remember that the governor talked to Merle earlier in the episode about using him as a mole. Might just be a plan, with Merle doing a great job of acting surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/66 "2012-12-03T17:55:02Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > And a thoroughly unpleasant person: whiny, entitled, arrogant, demanding, promiscuous… Oh, no! She’s _promiscuous_. What a slut. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/67 "2012-12-03T18:00:27Z")
The rest are bad enough, but how dare she not have your emotional hang-ups about sex! ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/68 "2012-12-03T18:05:00Z")
> [@BlueOhio](#): > > Meltdown, you might be onto something - remember that the governor talked to Merle earlier in the episode about using him as a mole. Might just be a plan, with Merle doing a great job of acting surprised. Yep, I think that’s it. Honestly, Merle didn’t even looked that shocked to me. He didn’t really protest at all. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/69 "2012-12-03T18:07:09Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > Here’s a thought I had – we don’t see what transpired between The Governor and Merle after The Governor said “I was attacked” and the very last scene. Is it possible that The Governor came up with a plan so that it would look like he was about to execute Merle and Daryl, but then an “escape” would happen, such that Daryl brings Merle back to the prison, and now The Governor has a man on the inside? The Governor just lost his eye and his daughter to Michonne after Merle lied to him about having killed her. I seriously doubt he had any plan other than to kill Merle and make an escape goat out of him. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/70 "2012-12-03T18:10:26Z")
Hm … autocorrect doesn’t recognize “scapegoat”? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/71 "2012-12-03T18:11:54Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > The Governor just lost his eye and his daughter to Michonne after Merle lied to him about having killed her. I seriously doubt he had any plan other than to kill Merle and make an escape goat out of him. Nitpick: scapegoat. Please carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/72 "2012-12-03T18:19:45Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I didn’t understand Michonne’s reaction to hearing zombie noises from behind a locked grate. It would have made more sense for her to see a child and open the door. > > I liked the small smile that Daryl started to show during the final scene with Merle. Made me feel like he knew something, had a plan, or was just looking forward to fighting his way out. Re: Michonne, she seemed to assume the Governor was a pedophile and she was freeing a child. Re: The Dixon. One thing that is interesting (and may have been mentioned and I missed it), this is the first time in the series the two brothers were on screen together in reality. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/73 "2012-12-03T18:21:40Z")
[Escape goat.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LluZ7tWxsn0&t=3m34s) ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/74 "2012-12-03T18:23:08Z")
This episode should have been incredibly intense as it’s the first meeting of the two story lines but what could have been awesome drama and action fell flat for me. Overall it was a solid episode but I was taken out of it too much by stupid stuff. Maggie should have easily killed Merle. If they wanted Merle to continue living they should have wrote it in such a way that she tried to shoot him and missed, or she was subdued before she could get the shot off. Either way that would have had the same result but less stupid. What was the point of Rick hesitating? So we can show his hesitation cause the death of replacement token black guy? The gunplay in the street shootout was … well stupid. Maybe the smoke they deployed was wussy for TV so you could still see the actors, but I have a hard time that little smoke would make them unable to be seen as they walk along the street. And Rick’s group could shoot just fine while engulfed in it, but somehow it created a cloud of invulnerability for them inside of it. Rick’s group had, what 4 people shooting, Rick, Maggie, Oscar, and Daryl. Woodbury had at least a dozen or so? Shooting a target at what looked like 2-400 feet away with rifles was incredibly easy against the National Guard, but against Rick’s group they suck balls. The gun fight totally took me out of it. The Michone character is getting comically stupid. First, the Governor is disarmed and you kill the zombie daughter. Apparently she wasn’t prepared to get attacked after that because while she was armed with her magical sword that can do no wrong, the Governor is somehow able to get the jump on her. That should have been the end of the Governor. If they wanted that scene to play out the way it did, maybe Michone puts down her sword to de-hood the zombie daughter and is surprised and without her sword. She uses an improvised blunt object weapon and while about to kill her the Governor walks in. As he does so, Michone is still without her sword as she put it down before. Still works, and she looks less stupid. Next, face to face with Andrea, the girl you’ve protected and been with for the better part of 9 months, and you can’t say a single word to explain. How about, “Merle kidnapped Glenn and Maggie and I’m here with Rick to save them.” I liked the show, but all the parts that could have been great drama were lessened by stupid. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/75 "2012-12-03T18:26:10Z")
It also didn’t make a ton of sense for them to have smoke. What do you need smoke grenades for in a prison? Now teargas would make sense. In fact, our group taking gas masks from the prison armory and using tear gas to cover their infiltration of Woodbury would make way more sense than that big firefight. Would’ve been more clever and just as dramatic with less stupid. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/76 "2012-12-03T18:35:48Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Not to speak for **John Mace** , but I believe he means that Daryl was captured, asked his guards if he could see Merle, and that this information was passed to The Governor, who kept it from Merle until the big reveal. This is probably the most plausible scenario. Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/77 "2012-12-03T19:02:57Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > Here’s a thought I had – we don’t see what transpired between The Governor and Merle after The Governor said “I was attacked” and the very last scene. Is it possible that The Governor came up with a plan so that it would look like he was about to execute Merle and Daryl, but then an “escape” would happen, such that Daryl brings Merle back to the prison, and now The Governor has a man on the inside? This was my thinking exactly, the whole thing felt like a set-up to me to get Daryl to trust Merle and end-up with a man on the inside. Didn’t they discuss earlier in the episode about getting a man inside? The only thing against this is what was mentioned earlier - Merle did tell the Gov that Michonne was dead. Clearly the Gov now knows Merle lied. Not a large leap to conspiracy for the Gov in that situation. Gonna be a long wait until February! ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/78 "2012-12-03T19:06:32Z")
There was one shot of one of the defenders looking right down at Daryl and firing off a burst from a machine gun at him and missing completely from about no further than ten feet that drove me crazy. Also the Shane lookalike completely ignoring Rick who was RIGHT THERE to take out token black guy who was much further away with a shot gun. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/79 "2012-12-03T19:13:38Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > Andrea is turning into a blonde Lori. I hope the lights finally went on in her head when the Gov hauled Daryl out in front of the bloodthirsty crowd. \ Yup. She’s seriously getting on my nerves. > [@](#): > > They need to start telling people that they lock in the outer room at the prison a little bit more information. I know I would all out panic if I thought I was being helped and then suddenly found myself locked in like I was their prisoner. Just a little no offense, but we don’t know you so to keep us safe until the rest of our group gets back you are going to be our guests in the 100% zombie secure area with food and water, please get some rest, no one is going to get hurt speech. Yup. “You understand - we don’t know you, and we’ve had some bad experiences with strangers before, so please don’t take it too personally.” > [@Meltdown](#): > > Here’s a thought I had – we don’t see what transpired between The Governor and Merle after The Governor said “I was attacked” and the very last scene. Is it possible that The Governor came up with a plan so that it would look like he was about to execute Merle and Daryl, but then an “escape” would happen, such that Daryl brings Merle back to the prison, and now The Governor has a man on the inside? I don’t think that would work, though - Glen would kill Merle the first chance he has. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799/80 "2012-12-03T19:16:15Z")
Has anyone mentioned yet how irritating it was that Rick didn’t pick up the gun he walked right past when he shot the Shane look-alike? Another gun would never be amiss in the Zombie Apocalypse. I guess we have to put that one down to him being rattled by feeling his cheese sliding off his cracker. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-08-made-to-suffer-open-spoilers/642799.md?page=5)