# The Walking Dead; 3.11 "I Ain't Judas" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 25, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306 "2013-02-25T01:52:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/21 "2013-02-25T19:27:01Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > For the first time I found myself cringing and looking away at violence against a walker - Andrea’s “rock-stompin” to break/remove the jaw was just brutal. Really? I found that scene to be pretty disarming. Anyway, at this point I just don’t care any more what happens to the various characters, except maybe Carl. The others are just too determinedly stupid for me to spare further emotional investment in their fates. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/22 "2013-02-25T21:22:17Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > In short, Governor is all about instilling the fear in his subordinates thus managing by fear (there is even one speech he held in which he refers to Rick’s group as “terrorists”) all the while, of course, keeping a tight lid on his secret machinations. I don’t know. The Governor seems to like his people living blissfully ignorant and comfortible lives while he has his core inner circle (Milton, Merle, Martinez and a handfull of redshirts) do all the dirty work that he needs doing to maintain Woodbury. I don’t see much “leadership” from Rick at all. Other than just going from one marginally defensible stronghold to the next. And now he’s crazy. The Governor seems to be becomming a bit unhinged himself. As Milton pointed out, his probing attack on the Prison was mostly posturing. And unless he has some National Guard tanks stashed away somewhere, I’m not sure how 40 or so barely trained suburban townsfolk armed with smallarms are going to storm a fortress surrounded by fields full of zombies. And did we really need Andrea to go all American History X on a zombie? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/23 "2013-02-25T21:27:18Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > And did we really need Andrea to go all American History X on a zombie? Run that by again? ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/24 "2013-02-25T21:47:28Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Run that by again? When she curbstomped the walker (after literally disarming it) to break its jaw and make it a “pet”. And yes, we did need that! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/25 "2013-02-25T21:58:48Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Right, when Andrea complained the Woodbury was now an armed camp with child soldiers, my reaction was “That’s what it always should have been.”… The Governor may be a villian, but he has a point. “Childhood” no longer exists in any meaningful form, at least not for teenagers. That being said I have alot of doubts about how effective the Woodbury Militia is going to be. At _best_ they’ll get a pyrrhic victory. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > I’ve mentioned this before, but the supposed soft cluelessness of the Woodbury people is totally at odds with their brutal gladitorial arena, where brother fights brother as the crowd cheers for blood… Only the nightshift is bloodthirsty, it’s the dayshift people that are soft & clueless.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/26 "2013-02-25T22:12:09Z")
As mentioned repeatedly, best not to look for plotholes in a show about zombies, but I have wondered where Woodbury found such a large cache of animal control collars (“on a stick”). Most places really don’t have that many of those laying around and I’m guessing Amazon’s no longer running, but Woodbury has a dozen or more of the things. Another vote for Andrea needs to get et, and not by the Governor. Stupid writing: Merle quoting the chapter and Bible verse and saying Woodbury had “a fine library”. Dude, the fact they owned a Bible doesn’t put them on par with the NYPL system; I’m guessing your average Econolodge has those in the room. So where would you rather live if you were an uninformed about the Governor’s insanity citizen: the prison or Woodbury? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/27 "2013-02-25T22:20:26Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Stupid writing: Merle quoting the chapter and Bible verse and saying Woodbury had “a fine library”. I wonder how many libraries Merle has been in, and how often he lies to make a point. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/28 "2013-02-25T22:30:30Z")
So if Merle died, his body intact, and became a walker, do you think he’d be able to use armblade when attacking humans? Some seem to be able to do simple strategy (such as using their hands) instead of just walk and bite, so if he accidentally got positive reinforcement by slowing somebody down with his blade-arm I wonder if he’d know to do it again. Does it seem to anybody else that the walkers are getting to look the worse for wear? I wonder if they have a life expectancy before they fall apart. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/29 "2013-02-25T22:39:34Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > As mentioned repeatedly, best not to look for plotholes in a show about zombies, but I have wondered where Woodbury found such a large cache of animal control collars (“on a stick”). Most places really don’t have that many of those laying around and I’m guessing Amazon’s no longer running, but Woodbury has a dozen or more of the things. Well, I suspect you could find them if you raided an Animal Control office. > [@](#): > > So where would you rather live if you were an uninformed about the Governor’s insanity citizen: the prison or Woodbury? Trouble is, the Woodbury community is so small that I find it unlikely in the extreme that the townspeople wouldn’t quickly notice that the Gov is wearing mismatched clown shoes. It’s not like there are layers upon layers of sycophants isolating him from the common people, like George III. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/30 "2013-02-25T23:30:23Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > As mentioned repeatedly, best not to look for plotholes in a show about zombies This sort of rationalization is frustrating. The major plot holes are in no way related to zombism. This show has plot holes because it’s poorly written. A decent writer could close the holes (or never open them to begin with) without changing the subject matter. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/31 "2013-02-26T00:16:12Z")
This was a transition, build-up episode for sure, so I didn’t mind that it was slower. I do mind the continuous use of the non-information sharing as a plot though. Can we please just get everyone up to speed and have good motivations for what people do? Andrea did something interesting: breaking out of Woodbury and into the prison in order to talk to Rick, but that didn’t last long and the talk was kind of just “meh”. Michonne actually getting some lines in this time was great, she needs to talk more, her glowering wore thin 3 or 4 episodes ago. I find it a little odd that Merle was able to get, even with Daryl’s convincing, free reign of the prison so quickly. They should keep him locked away in one section of the prison, both as a plot device and because I doubt Glenn or Maggie would have put up with him walking around as if he were part of the group. How long did they keep Tyreese’s group in that locked up part? Speaking of Tyreese, loved how they got to Woodbury and will be a wrinkle in how the whole Rick’s group vs. Governor’s group will play out. I don’t know how its going to play out, but I’m really looking forward to finding out. It looks like they are probably going to tell the Governor how they got into the prison using that back way I thought it was pretty stupid of the group to just give Andrea a car. Even if they felt it was too dangerous for her to walk all the way back to Woodbury, though she did it the first time with a zombie, they should have at least drove her and dropped her off. They’ve basically given the Governor a free gift, and for someone they didn’t really trust, thought was full of BS, and didn’t want to be part of their group anymore ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/32 "2013-02-26T00:30:22Z")
I was surprised that Andrea didn’t even try to sneak back into Woodbury. She made a big deal about doing the whole thing in secret and needing Milton’s help to leave & get back in. Intead she just drove up to the gate in full view of everybody. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/33 "2013-02-26T00:32:45Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Stupid writing: Merle quoting the chapter and Bible verse and saying Woodbury had “a fine library”. Dude, the fact they owned a Bible doesn’t put them on par with the NYPL system; I’m guessing your average Econolodge has those in the room. I don’t think that Merle really knows much, if anything, about libraries and their contents. I thought that it was funny that he could finish the verse. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/34 "2013-02-26T00:35:14Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I was surprised that Andrea didn’t even try to sneak back into Woodbury. She made a big deal about doing the whole thing in secret and needing Milton’s help to leave & get back in. Intead she just drove up to the gate in full view of everybody. I thought that the Governor told her not to bother coming back. Maybe my memory is wrong, though… ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/35 "2013-02-26T01:05:07Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > The Governor may be a villian, but he has a point. “Childhood” no longer exists in any meaningful form, at least not for teenagers. The funny thing is, the prison group is already living this way. Carl’s already twice the badass fighter most of the Woodbury draftees could ever hope to be. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/36 "2013-02-26T01:46:28Z")
I **hate** that stupid, comic-booky lameness of how having a walker near you magically makes you safe from other walkers, but only if you have it in your control with leashes (Michone) or animal control collars (Andrea.) The idiocy of that very concept is a decent example of why comic books get no respect. Smear zombie guts all over you to mask your smell? Plausible. Clever, even. Have a walker be standing 3-4 feet away from you to mask your smell? Aggressively stupid. What happens when you’re walking around in the woods and two walkers come at you? Won’t their smell confuse each other? No. They even friggin lampshaded this when Tyrese’s group pointed out that the smell-masker, who was in smell-masking distance at the time, did nothing to slow down the two walkers that showed up and had to be killed. Apparently the smell is only masked when you are able to control/domesticate them in some way. It just offends me, probably way more than it should. When such “cool, neato!” elements are introduced that clearly make no sense, I feel like I’m consuming entertainment meant for 6 year olds. Just to be perfectly clear, the smell-masking by proximity alone (as opposed to physically smearing guts all over yourself) would make a massive herd, like the one that overran the farm, the safest possible place you could be. In a large herd there should be zero possible chance to be attacked if that stupid contrivance of smell-masking-by-proximity was effective. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > The Governor may be a villian, but he has a point. “Childhood” no longer exists in any meaningful form, at least not for teenagers. That being said I have alot of doubts about how effective the Woodbury Militia is going to be. At _best_ they’ll get a pyrrhic victory. Agreed. That’s why Dale’s sermonizing always grated on me, clinging to a reality that no longer existed. To the point that he’d much rather die from his delusions than accept what reality had become. Maybe it annoyed me so much because it reminded me (an atheist) of the mindset of zealots. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/37 "2013-02-26T07:31:07Z")
Woodbury is kinda like the USS _Voyager_ - kill off a few nameless background characters every week to prove the situation is serious, but the overall population remains constant. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/38 "2013-02-26T08:16:25Z")
I thought this ep was kinda lame, and, as mentioned above, the _American History X_-esque curbstomping tripped me out. First thing I thought of. Maybe the writers didn’t snap to the resemblance to the movie. Or maybe they did. This ep was confusing. But then again, you can’t attribute normal thinking amongst people as to how they think in such a surreal post-apocalyptic environment. Everybody has to be a little bit crazy, right? Imagine dealing with zombies every day for a few years. It will really be a trip if the zombies learn how to _run_ :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/39 "2013-02-26T11:27:43Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Really? I found that scene to be pretty disarming. Wait a second… Yup, I see what you did there ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-11-i-aint-judas-open-spoilers/651306/40 "2013-02-26T15:40:40Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Ever since the introduction of Governor and his town I’ve been thinking about this juxtaposition of two distinctively different leadership styles – Rick’s and Governor’s – over the course of Season 3. > > In short, Governor is all about instilling the fear in his subordinates thus managing by fear (there is even one speech he held in which he refers to Rick’s group as “terrorists”) all the while, of course, keeping a tight lid on his secret machinations. Thus we get this eerie (well, at least to me) sense of some current events where Rick’s action to free Maggie and Glenn is designated as “terrorist attack”. Governor is slick and highly manipulative and his success is as good as his success at manipulating those around him. Also, his unpredictability (e.g. when after the attack he goes off into his place and stays there only to get out to shoot one of the town’s residents bitten by The Walkers) is deeply personal but it affects those around him ever more than any of his conscious devious plans – which is very interesting feature of a leader. > > On the other hand, Rick’s group is very small and I think he keeps it small due to his leadership style. With Rick it’s all about strong individual effort and creative thinking when it comes to dealing with obstacles or enemies. Over time, he develops a strong relationship with similar minded men but only because he has a knack of dealing with them as individuals and on a mutually beneficial basis rather than on the basis of fear and forced subordination (e.g. when he makes a direct and highly personal plea to Daryl “we have a connection” when Daryl decides to go with his brother on their own). His leadership style reminds me of the way guerrilla groups operate. > > Just an idea… 🙂 I agree that the above is probably what the show is trying to portray, but it’s undermined by Rick’s non-leadership and the decision to make The Governor increasingly unhinged. Insane characters are always the least effective and interesting ones in fiction, it’s a terrible plot device. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > The Governor may be a villian, but he has a point. “Childhood” no longer exists in any meaningful form, at least not for teenagers. That being said I have alot of doubts about how effective the Woodbury Militia is going to be. At best they’ll get a pyrrhic victory. Right, using them as a strike force is foolish, but every person in Woodbury should be trained to defend themselves and the town. It’s a hardscrabble world out there. I don’t think there would actually be much objection to teaching a 14 year old with asthma to shoot. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > Only the nightshift is bloodthirsty, it’s the dayshift people that are soft & clueless. 😉 You might be on to something, I wonder if they’re using the same extras. > [@Sampiro](#): > > So if Merle died, his body intact, and became a walker, do you think he’d be able to use armblade when attacking humans? Some seem to be able to do simple strategy (such as using their hands) instead of just walk and bite, so if he accidentally got positive reinforcement by slowing somebody down with his blade-arm I wonder if he’d know to do it again. There seems to be a lot of individual variation, we saw one walker recognize a revolver as a threat and put it away from its face, and another revisit the house where it’d stayed as a human; others seem to lack any sort of reasoning power. So, it depends on how much thinking zombie Merle was capable of. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Does it seem to anybody else that the walkers are getting to look the worse for wear? I wonder if they have a life expectancy before they fall apart. Someone in an earlier thread posted an item about how the sxf team was making the zombies look more and more rotted, but now I can’t seem to find it. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > I was surprised that Andrea didn’t even try to sneak back into Woodbury. She made a big deal about doing the whole thing in secret and needing Milton’s help to leave & get back in. Intead she just drove up to the gate in full view of everybody. I thought it was in character for her, entitled arrogance is her thing. > [@gytalf2000](#): > > I thought that the Governor told her not to bother coming back. Maybe my memory is wrong, though… You’re right, he did. > [@Ellis Dee](#): > > I **hate** that stupid, comic-booky lameness of how having a walker near you magically makes you safe from other walkers, but only if you have it in your control with leashes (Michone) or animal control collars (Andrea.) The idiocy of that very concept is a decent example of why comic books get no respect. Agreed, and further, the LAST thing the show needs is another way to make the walkers non-threatening. They have posed less and less of a threat as the show has gone on, they are more like ambulatory rotting pumpkins than ravenous monsters at this point. The only legitimate threat one posed this season occured when Glenn was tied to a chair. When the zombies aren’t particularly dangerous, it makes the inter-human fighting less believeable. Rick and co should just leave the prison, and set up in a waste treatment plant or factory two counties over. The Governor is far more dangerous than the zombies. 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