# The Walking Dead; 3.13 "Arrow on the Doorpost" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 11, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587 "2013-03-11T00:30:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/81 "2013-03-12T19:50:33Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Just because I love this movie, I’ll address the elements in question. This is just for purposes of fun discussion, mind you, I’m not trying to bludgeon you into liking the film. I hate the sequel, so I’ll only address _28 Days Later_: I can see that you like it! Largely, we’ll have to agree to disagree about it. The one point I wanted to comment on was your response to my question about where the people went. They are dead, or scattered. The dead don’t rise up, they just rot. [/QUOTE] Perhaps it’s because I have forgotten so much about the movie, but do the infected die out quickly? If so, this is a little easier to buy. But still, there are 1,000 people per square mile in England, and 13,400 people per square mile in London alone. I just don’t see how they could scatter and leave streets deserted when the infection rate is so rapid. And again, unless the infected die out pretty quickly, you’re just not really going to find places to wander about unmolested. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/82 "2013-03-12T20:08:23Z")
I forgot to note that Georgia has a population density of about 136 people per square mile, for comparison purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/83 "2013-03-12T20:42:13Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The lack of direct exchange of information is indeed part of a plan. It has been a plan by the writers to maintain some semblance of dramatic tension and ambivalence on the part of a character that they want to keep viable - Andrea, without having to think really hard about a better, more complete and realistic way to pull that off. > > Just like Mr. Furley or Mr. Roper overhearing only the mistakenly salacious portion of a conversation through the wall on Three’s Company, the rest of the story relies on this contrivance. God, yes. Up until this point I was defending the Maggie situation against \*\*SenorBeef’s \*\*complaints, giving the writers the benefit of the doubt. And all along I’ve been more sympathetic to Andrea than most fans. I thought if you looked at only the information she was privy to, she wasn’t stupid to stay with the Governor (especially if you assume that Rick is a hero and the audience is basically OK with his actions - the Gov isn’t much different). But this episode is where I’m just giving up. It certainly would have made sense for the prison group to reveal the sexual intimidation to Andrea, not because, “Oh no, the Governor\*\* almost raped Maggie\*\*,” but rather “ **the Governor** almost raped Maggie.” It completely destroys his claim that Merle was acting alone against Glenn and Maggie, and should make Andrea disbelieve that story, and thus question just how much of a lying, violent, lunatic shitheel she’s been bedding. Instead we got some confused references to . . . something with Maggie. It’s possible they’re setting up something really bold, where Andrea carries out Carol’s (eminently sensible) plan, and somehow another issue becomes the climax of this season, without the Governor there at all. A ballsy and talented writing crew could pull that off and amaze me. The catch being that the writers haven’t really shown a modicum of balls or wit lately. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/84 "2013-03-12T20:48:06Z")
I always felt “Fast Zombies” were really a different type of monster altogether and in a perfect world would have a different name but on the surface have enough in common with Zombies that that name stuck. To me the whole point of “Real” Zombies is they are scary in large numbers. One or two are easy to deal with but they just keep coming and coming. Fast Zombies are not like that. One Fast Zombie is much more dangerous than a slow one. Coincidentally, I re-watched Will Smith’s I am Legend recently and it occurred to me had that movie been made a few years later they would have called the monsters in that Zombies. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/85 "2013-03-12T20:51:08Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Perhaps it’s because I have forgotten so much about the movie, but do the infected die out quickly? If so, this is a little easier to buy. But still, there are 1,000 people per square mile in England, and 13,400 people per square mile in London alone. I just don’t see how they could scatter and leave streets deserted when the infection rate is so rapid. And again, unless the infected die out pretty quickly, you’re just not really going to find places to wander about unmolested. [spoiler]They seem to starve to death; a few starving ones are seen at the end. It’s unclear if the infected eat or not, but it’s clear that they need to eat in order to live. As for where the people are: 1. Mark tells Jim of his family fleeing to an airport, where a massive crowd formed of desperate people trying to flee England, most of whom died on the scene. Also, Jim finds a church piled wall to wall with corpses. It seems likely that the dead aren’t randomly distributed, they’d be in groups: refugee camps, airports, churches, etc. 2. When a single infected, Sgt. Mailer is released into the manner house, he infects the first person he attacks. The pair of them then set about killing everyone else they get their hands on. The infected appear compelled both to kill and to infect others on some instinctual basis; not everyone they attack becomes infected. Most just die. 3. The crisis unfolded over 28 days, and the films tagline (which may or may not be official) includes “Day 20: Evacuation.” Getting people out of the cities was likely the priority of the evacuation process. We know people had time to flee to airports, to put up messages to lost loved ones in public places, and to set up military checkpoints and such. Most people thus probably died outside the city centers, or within buildings in cities, as opposed to out in the streets. Even so, corpses are seen on the streets and in the tunnel in London. [/spoiler] I agree that in TWD, the zombies seem overly numerous, as almost every victim becomes a zombie. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/86 "2013-03-12T20:51:15Z")
> [@stegon66](#): > > …The zombies in Return of the Living Dead (a horror comedy) are reanimated corpses but they’ve retained their intelligence and are much more agile than other film/tv zombies… Don’t forget about headshots not working, and needing a crematorium to properly kill them (& you’d better have a filter for that smokestack or you’re just making things worse if it rains). Oh, and zombie animals (though only the first RoLD addressed that, & only briefly). > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > …Perhaps it’s because I have forgotten so much about the movie, but do the infected die out quickly?.. Within a few weeks. They’re so consumed with rage they aren’t aware of their most basic needs so they end up dying of exposure, starvation, dehydration, etc. It would be possible to keep one alive alot longer in a controlled enviroment like a secure lab. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/87 "2013-03-12T21:03:10Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Better or worse than The Walking Dead (in aggregate)? Tough call. Basically, my patience for a zombie presentation runs low when the only danger to the survivors comes from the survivors’ own determinedly stupid self-destructive behaviour. So basically _28 Days Later_ lost me around the soldiers began acting like idiots (which was, I guess… 60 minutes into the movie?) and now _The Walking Dead_ is reaching that same point, although the slower pace meant it took several seasons. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/88 "2013-03-12T22:32:18Z")
[“Making of” video](http://www.amctv.com/the-walking-dead/videos/spoilers-the-making-of-episode-313-arrow-on-the-doorpost-inside-the-walking-dead). “CanIhaveitCanIhaveitCanIhaveit?” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Courk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@Courk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Courk)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/89 "2013-03-13T01:27:45Z")
I thought that was adorable! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/90 "2013-03-13T06:19:28Z")
The crossbow in _Hansel and Gretel: Witch Hunters_ was cooler, with the mild disadvantage of being, y’know, completely ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/91 "2013-03-13T06:31:27Z")
This reminds me of when Shane died and how fast he came back. Pretty quick and he seemed to move fast. I thought this would be a precursor to the zombies getting faster. Do I remember this right? Also, I think Milton still has some mad scientist zombie shit going on. Why did he ask to see Hershels stump? I think there will be some surprising shit outta the blue, not just a Woodbury/Prison thing. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/92 "2013-03-13T07:32:08Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > The thing that’s bothering me the most about this how now is that the zombies are no longer scary. Everyone’s an expert zombie killer, to the point of showing off about it. It’s like deer over-population now. I should hope so. They were living on the road out in the open dealing with zombies on a daily basis for 8 months between last season and this season. They did successfully show a scary lone zombie when Merle threw that one at Glenn and locked the door. > [@Quimby](#): > > Coincidentally, I re-watched Will Smith’s I am Legend recently and it occurred to me had that movie been made a few years later they would have called the monsters in that Zombies. Granted they were a bit of a hybrid, but they were more vampire than zombies. (The sun kills em.) ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/93 "2013-03-13T11:32:48Z")
> [@Klaatu](#): > > This reminds me of when Shane died and how fast he came back. Pretty quick and he seemed to move fast. I thought this would be a precursor to the zombies getting faster. Do I remember this right? Also, I think Milton still has some mad scientist zombie shit going on. Why did he ask to see Hershels stump? > > I think there will be some surprising shit outta the blue, not just a Woodbury/Prison thing. I sure hope they do something creative, but I think Milton was just being his nerd self, wanting to know more about how zombies, infection, and turning work. As for Shane and zombie speed, I believe this is info from the showrunners, so I’ll box it: I believe they’ve said the zombies are faster when fresh, and even though they’re decomposing slower than a regular dead body, they will get slower and more awkward as they age Anyone who was frustrated by Rick’s stupidity and the lack of give and take in the “negotiation” should check out the [little skit](http://baldmove.com/2013/03/313-arrow-on-the-doorpost-the-watching-dead/) the guys at Bald Move did at the beginning of this episode’s podcast. My favorite: “-for no more than 60 seconds!” They also mentioned that this episode was heavily retooled - that explains a lot, from the vagueness about Maggie to the “I demand surrender! [commercial] I demand Michonne!” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/94 "2013-03-13T11:42:57Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Granted they were a bit of a hybrid, but they were more vampire than zombies. (The sun kills em.) In the Richard Matheson novel, they were vampires. They had a virus in the Charleton Heston film. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/95 "2013-03-13T13:23:46Z")
> [@montag01](#): > > I agree that in a “real life” situation Rick probably would have just shot the Governor in the face, but I’ll let that pass for drama’s sake. If they’d just gone in with the intent to take out the governor, the conflict would have been over. Other than maybe Andrea, there doesn’t appear to be a single leader in the whole town community. Off the governor and his stronger henchmen, give tea boy a good scare and send him back with the message to never, ever, come close to Rick’s crew again. Move on to real drama. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/96 "2013-03-13T13:28:06Z")
if they did that Andrea would react badly and take over as the evil lead. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/97 "2013-03-13T14:07:31Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > if they did that Andrea would react badly and take over as the evil lead. Then we could finally kill her off as well - win win. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/98 "2013-03-13T14:27:40Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > If they’d just gone in with the intent to take out the governor, the conflict would have been over. Other than maybe Andrea, there doesn’t appear to be a single leader in the whole town community. Off the governor and his stronger henchmen, give tea boy a good scare and send him back with the message to never, ever, come close to Rick’s crew again. Move on to real drama. > [@shijinn](#): > > if they did that Andrea would react badly and take over as the evil lead. That’s an interesting road not taken: Rick and co. arrive at the meeting intending to negotiate in good faith. The Governor announces that there will be no negotiation, he just came to accept a surrender. Rick shrugs, draws his revolver, and kills the Governor, who represented an imminent threat to his people. Andrea returns to Woodbury, and either tries to lead and fails (perhaps Martinez assumes the reigns of power), or takes control and either tries to make Woodbury a better place to live, or launches retaliatory attacks against the prison, forcing the prison gang back out on the road for season 4. ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/99 "2013-03-13T14:40:16Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > One more thing, Andrea’s costume is reaching a sort of Gilligan’s Island level of absurdity. “What to wear in an zombie-apocalypse? How 'bout a shirt that won’t button over my tits.” And this is a problem because…??? ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587/100 "2013-03-13T14:50:47Z")
> [@Klaatu](#): > > This reminds me of when Shane died and how fast he came back. Pretty quick and he seemed to move fast. I thought this would be a precursor to the zombies getting faster. Do I remember this right? Also, I think Milton still has some mad scientist zombie shit going on. Why did he ask to see Hershels stump? > > I think there will be some surprising shit outta the blue, not just a Woodbury/Prison thing. I think that anger and rage have something to do with the onset of the change. Shane was smacking himself in the forehead just before and after he offed the kid. Milton (and it’s hard to stop thinking Office Space here) is still doing research. We know that everyone carries the virus (lets call it ZPV). We know that the rate of reanimation varies between minutes and days. We know that although everyone carries the virus, the change can occur from being bitten or scratched by a zombie. Because Hershel was bitten, but did not change due to the amputation/cauterization, Milton can assume that the spread of the virus in the blood stream can be arrested (much like a snakebite). Milton, being the good evil scientist,wants to see the state of Hershel’s wound, presumably to compare with the other notes he has been taking. What about the camp of 30 men that the kid and dudes from Philly came from? Is is Woodbury? Or is Rick gonna have to smite the Guv, unite Woodbury and the prison, and go looking for them? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-13-arrow-on-the-doorpost-open-spoilers/652587.md?page=6)