# The Walking Dead; 3.15 "This Sorrowful Life" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 25, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864 "2013-03-25T00:10:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/61 "2013-03-25T23:36:39Z")
Will Boy-with-Asthma play a pivotal role next week, do you suppose? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/62 "2013-03-26T02:23:43Z")
The whole “was Merle eating Ben” thing is clearly resolved by now, but on Talking Dead they showed a behind-the-scenes of that scene, even putting the actor’s name and “Ben” on the screen when they showed him on the ground ready to be eaten by Merle. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/63 "2013-03-26T03:11:11Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > They are right - the zombies in Walking Dead are nothing more than nuisances. I noticed a lot of people saying this lately and there (totally coincidentally) happens to be the second episode of the series on in the background right now. I think you have to take into consideration a few things. First off, they’ve mentioned that younger/newer zombies are stronger. At the beginning, they were all new zombies, as the show goes on longer, some of them are much older and much easier to deal with. But more importantly, they know _how_ to deal with them. There was a scene in this episode where someone spots a single zombie getting close to the campsite and it takes something like 6 guys to beat this thing to death (and a final blow to the head with an axe from Dale). Also, IIRC, this was still back when they weren’t sure if they could touch them or not. Fast foward a bit and they have no problem dragging them out of cars, kicking them out of their way, they’re comfortable enough to get into hand to hand combat with them and the two most important things (imho) they know that noise attracts them so if they’re quiet the walkers will ignore them (to a point) and even more important, they know that all it takes is a blow to the head to kill them. In the beginning, they didn’t know what to do to get rid of these things. If more then one showed up, all they could do is run, now they know that all it takes is a knife to the skull and they’re comfortable/practiced/jaded enough to do it from an arms length. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/64 "2013-03-26T04:44:36Z")
I don’t think anybody was saying it makes no logical sense - just that it sucks for dramatic reasons. So the humans have learned and refined their techniques while losing their fear. Ok. Now the zombies need a buff of some sort. They don’t necessarily need to get smarter, stronger or faster, since I’m sure there’d be people saying that it didn’t make sense and defies the genre lore, or whatever. So make them hungrier and more desperate, or have the virus become more contagious (not just triggered by bites or death), have it spread to animals - do \*something \*to keep them interesting and compelling. As it is, ISTM that the conventional zombie lore isn’t well suited for multiple seasons of TV series episodes. It might have worked in dark theaters for a couple of hours, but that shit gets old quick. Now in its 34th hour, TWD desperately needs to deviate from those norms to keep things interesting, otherwise the name of the show will become hilariously apt on so many levels. ---
**Author:** ![coolbyrne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bc79bd/32.png) [@coolbyrne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coolbyrne)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/65 "2013-03-26T11:20:34Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > I usually try to avoid the previews, but based on Rick’s speech where he declares an end to the ricktatorship and proclaims the new beginning of a dumbocracy(?), I was already guessing that… > > _(very mild and slightly obvious speculation and commentary based on an ambiguous scene in the preview which implies a possible major plot point: )_ > > [spoiler]…they were going to vote to leave the prison, which the preview only sort of implies, I guess. And to that, I say AMEN! > > When they secured the prison, I think I was the first person to comment on how totally non-threatening and lame the zombie menace had now become. And I knew that as long as they stayed there, the story would become less about zombies and more about (mostly tedious and contrived) intra/interpersonal relationships. > > I don’t care how the story goes in the comic books, this show is best when they are out there on the road, exploring how the zombie apocalypse has affected everything. I realize that there are logistics and budget concerns that can make that challenging, but I see no reason why it can’t be done. If a much lamer - and presumably tighter-budgeted show - like _Falling Skies_ manages to do it, TWD can do it, too. > > They need to get out there and mix it up, instead of aimlessly hiding in farms and prisons. I want to learn more about how the larger world is dealing with the circumstances, not just a small part of Georgia. I want them to touch more on the backstory of how the zombie virus came to be, and on the possibilities of reversing it (in the unafflicted) through an antidote of some sort. > > If I don’t see at least hints of some of this in the first few episodes of the next season, I think I may have to finally and regretfully abandon this show. > [/spoiler] Slight spoiler for the books, which may be a slight spoiler for the show if they follow the books at all: [spoiler]Your wish for most of these things will be for naught. I’ve read up to trade paperback #16 (it’s up to #17), and after 10 years (!) it’s still pretty much 1. Find the “perfect” place to start over 2. Which lasts for about 6 months 3. Then some kind of power struggle develops and/or 4. An outside force comes into the picture 5. Rick is forced to make a huge decision for his group 6. Someone dies 7. The perfect place is destroyed, either literally or metaphorically 8. They move on 9. After some hardship on the road, they 10. Find the “perfect” place to start over At no real point do we really see or find out what’s happening outside of that area, let alone Georgia. There was a push to get to Washington, but nothing ever came of it in terms of back story for the rest of the States. Maybe all that mindless shuffling about is supposed to reinforce Rick’s declaration in the early trades: “_We_ are the walking dead.”[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/66 "2013-03-26T13:30:22Z")
I enjoyed this episode, despite many of the logical consistencies pointed out in this thread. Why they didn’t give Michonne a speaking role from the start is beyond me. The one thing I did miss, though, was there was no reference to what was going on with Andrea. I assume we’ll find out next week. And I’m glad to see Merle gone-- he started getting on my nerves a long time ago. As for Daryl, suck it up man. You’re not the only person who had to kill a loved one. Plus, maybe now you can grow out of Merle’s shadow and really become your own man. I wonder if Maggie is ever going to find out where he engagement ring came from! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/67 "2013-03-26T14:00:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I wonder if Maggie is ever going to find out where he engagement ring came from! :eek: As someone posted upthread, return would be a bitch. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/68 "2013-03-26T15:02:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I wonder if Maggie is ever going to find out where he engagement ring came from! :eek: They should have given that particular zombie a nametag that said “Tiffany.” ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/69 "2013-03-26T16:14:49Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Rick’s speech where he declares an end to the ricktatorship and proclaims the new beginning of a **dumbocracy** (?) 😃 Once again, despite Michonne’s brief badassery, this show doesn’t quite know what to do with its women. Why the hell is Carol relegated to constant baby duty? She’s tough as hell and can fight, but she remains locked in the “mother” role. As much as I liked her conversation with Merle, I don’t like how sidelined she is. And WTF was that with Glenn? He’s angrier about Merle handing Maggie over to the Gov to be humiliated? He goes and asks her father if he can marry her before he asks her? Her major role in this episode is to pray with her father and say yes to a marriage proposal? Blergh. And what’s Michonne’s big achievement in this ep? Sure she kills some zombies, but really her usefulness is in employing her feminine understanding of feelings (?!) to rehabilitate a violent man so he can go save the day by killing bad guys. Meanwhile, Andrea is still bound and gagged in the Governor’s rape-torture chamber, waiting to be rescued. I really hope next season they manage to flesh out a female character in a similar way to Daryl or hell, even Carl. I don’t think it’s actually terrible misogyny at work so much as general ineptitude, seeing as many of the characters are a hot mess, but it does irk me. Did you guys know Laurie Holden is getting _death threats_ because people hate her character so much? Yikes. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/70 "2013-03-26T19:56:13Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > 😃 > > Once again, despite Michonne’s brief badassery, this show doesn’t quite know what to do with its women. Why the hell is Carol relegated to constant baby duty? She’s tough as hell and can fight, but she remains locked in the “mother” role. As much as I liked her conversation with Merle, I don’t like how sidelined she is. And WTF was that with Glenn? He’s angrier about Merle handing Maggie over to the Gov to be humiliated? He goes and asks her father if he can marry her before he asks her? Her major role in this episode is to pray with her father and say yes to a marriage proposal? Blergh. > > And what’s Michonne’s big achievement in this ep? Sure she kills some zombies, but really her usefulness is in employing her feminine understanding of feelings (?!) to rehabilitate a violent man so he can go save the day by killing bad guys. > > Meanwhile, Andrea is still bound and gagged in the Governor’s rape-torture chamber, waiting to be rescued. > > I really hope next season they manage to flesh out a female character in a similar way to Daryl or hell, even Carl. I don’t think it’s actually terrible misogyny at work so much as general ineptitude, seeing as many of the characters are a hot mess, but it does irk me. Did you guys know Laurie Holden is getting _death threats_ because people hate her character so much? Yikes. You’re not the only one to notice this. There have been a few blogs, posts, and maybe even articles about the show’s depiction of women. Here is one that compares a few of the TV characters to the comic book counterparts. Mild comic book spoilers. [http://www.btchflcks.com/2013/02/the-women-of-walking-dead-comparative.html](http://www.btchflcks.com/2013/02/the-women-of-walking-dead-comparative.html) ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/71 "2013-03-26T20:14:28Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > Did you guys know Laurie Holden is getting _death threats_ because people hate her character so much? Yikes. :(:eek: No I didn’t know that. W.T.F. It’s a TV show… ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/72 "2013-03-26T20:16:36Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > Why the hell is Carol relegated to constant baby duty? She’s tough as hell and can fight, but she remains locked in the “mother” role Maybe she actually, gosh, likes taking care of Little Asskicker? She IS a mother, albeit without a child of her own anymore, so she more than anyone there is suited to the role, regardless of what else she can do. And it’s not like she’s never been seen doing other things (unless you have selective memory), she’s had scenes walking the grounds and such, remember when the Gov attacked, she wasn’t anywhere near the baby. It’s just, she’s a third tier character, of course she’s not going to be getting a ton of screen time doing cool stuff. > [@](#): > > And WTF was that with Glenn? … He goes and asks her father if he can marry her before he asks her? In general, people consider that a classy thing to do, not something to get enraged (or at least WTF) over. ---
**Author:** ![Mavic\_Chen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e56c9b/32.png) [@Mavic\_Chen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mavic_Chen)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/73 "2013-03-26T20:31:24Z")
What I don’t get is that a couple of episodes back, Andrea did a huge speech in front of the town to bring them all back together. After her rousing monologue all the townspeople were all back slapping each other and hugging her etc. Five minutes later she is public enemy number one and the most hated actress on the planet? What the hell? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/74 "2013-03-26T20:32:35Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > Did you guys know Laurie Holden is getting _death threats_ because people hate her character so much? Yikes. I wonder if David Morrissey is getting them too or if it’s just blondes they hate. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/75 "2013-03-26T20:42:43Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > …In general, people consider that a classy thing to do, not something to get enraged (or at least WTF) over. Some people. Most of my female friends would either be amused or angry if their boyfriend or girlfriend approached their father first. Mostly the lesbians would be amused. I don’t think anybody in my circle would find it classy. I guess it’s a generational thing. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/76 "2013-03-26T22:52:12Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Some people. Most of my female friends would either be amused or angry if their boyfriend or girlfriend approached their father first. Mostly the lesbians would be amused. I don’t think anybody in my circle would find it classy. I guess it’s a generational thing. I asked my fiancé’s father first. Naturally he gave his blessing and expressed he was happy to have me become a part of the family. When I told my fiancé she thought it was incredibly thoughtful and a respectful gesture towards her father that I asked his permission. We both agreed that if he had said “no”, we would have still got married. Then again, it isn’t exactly a question you ask when you have any doubt as to the answer. MeanJoe ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/77 "2013-03-26T23:40:52Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > We both agreed that if he had said “no”, we would have still got married. Then again, it isn’t exactly a question you ask when you have any doubt as to the answer. > MeanJoe Had they still been alive, I’d have asked both Mrs. Plant v.3.0’s parents when we decided to marry. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/78 "2013-03-27T00:23:06Z")
I thought asking her father was sweet, it showed class. And it was a small reminder that a world where that would happen is just about gone. The ‘ring shopping’, however, left something to be desired! I guess Glenn didn’t want to wait as time is running out. Otherwise, I think it would be fun to see them coming across a jewelry store and do their zombie killing decked out in Rolex watches, diamond tiaras, and other worthless bling. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/79 "2013-03-27T01:16:49Z")
There is nothing sweet of classy about thinking of women like property. Asking the father for permission is an antiquated and insulting custom that should not be encouraged. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864/80 "2013-03-27T01:24:14Z")
It never even occurred to me to discuss asking either of my wives (two separate times, of course) with anybody else, let alone their parents, before asking them. But in this situation I might do it, for a couple reasons: 1. It is a small group. If for some reason he won’t approve it is going to cause a huge problem and it is probably good to know that before going down that road anyway. 2. For Glenn I don’t think that him asking was about a sense of tradition or proper gentlemanly behavior. I think it was more about seeking validation that despite his feelings that he failed Maggie in not being able to protect he from Merle and the Governor that he is still considered a good person and a good person for Maggie. Especially from someone so important to her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-3-15-this-sorrowful-life-open-spoilers/653864.md?page=5)