# The Walking Dead; 4.04 "Indifference" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 4, 2013, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018 "2013-11-04T01:09:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/41 "2013-11-04T17:18:09Z")
> [@Daddypants](#): > > Why didn’t they leave the school the same way they came in? I asked El Hubbo this exact same damn question. Exact same. You shoulda seen the look he gave me; it was hysterical. He also said something to the effect of: “It’s truly to bad that there isn’t some sort of built-in mechanism for transferring something back and forth without actually having to deliver whatever it is in person. You know, in a prison?” We’re really watching more for the snark value, now. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/42 "2013-11-04T17:22:30Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > Ham-fisted as Rick can be, I have to come to his defense regarding Carol. > > He took her along on the trip to feel her out, and determined to his satisfaction that what she did wasn’t out of malice, but as way to protect the group, in a manner to Carol that was as bone-headed as anything Rick has done. This created a quandary, because he knew Tyreese would kill her when he found out, malice or not. > > The fact that the killings were euthanasias drove him to exile Carol to save her life than to lose it to Tyreese back at the slammer. I have no doubt that had Rick thought she did them for a darker motive that he would have killed her himself before returning. Solution to the quandry: don’t tell Tyreese that Carol was the killer. Stall, then blame the next person killed on a run, or someone killed by the flu. Or, leave it unsolved. Or, have some kind of rule of law, instead of a unilateral banishment. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/43 "2013-11-04T17:28:06Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Solution to the quandry: don’t tell Tyreese that Carol was the killer. Stall, then blame the next person killed on a run, or someone killed by the flu. Or, leave it unsolved. > > Or, have some kind of rule of law, instead of a unilateral banishment. No argument here. Perhaps the boneheadedness is as contagious as the flu. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/44 "2013-11-04T17:31:45Z")
I like the character development we’ve seen with Carol and Daryl. The wings on the back of his motorcycle jacket have always symbolized to me that he may develop some redeeming qualities. I like the ambiguity about him. I haven’t seen Michonne smile very much but wasn’t that some smile she gave Daryl? Hmm? He seems all business and oblivious. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/45 "2013-11-04T17:36:39Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > No argument here. Perhaps the boneheadedness is as contagious as the flu. If so, Rick is Patient Zero. I really didn’t get what the problem was, we’ve seen Rick keep secrets before (even for no reason, such as the fact that all dead people reanimated). If he was experiencing moral outrage at Carol’s murders, he sure didn’t show it, and giving her a car full of gear and a send-off from the plague pit is a pretty weak punishment. Either this was the show failing to convey what it wanted to, again, or Carol’s headed for the spin-off. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/46 "2013-11-04T17:41:42Z")
As to why they couldn’t go back the way they came, they made some comments in the lab about “Those dead are infected like the sick people back at the prison, you get some blood on you or breathe it in, you’ll be infected too.” Then someone else said, “How do we know THOSE aren’t infected too?” (referring to the walkers in the stairwell) I think it was Michonne who replied, “We don’t.” So basically, they knew the walkers in the lab were infected with the super-flu, but they weren’t sure about the walkers in the stairwell, so they went that way. As to HOW they knew the walkers in the lab were infected? I have no frickin’ clue. Deleted scene, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Reverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Reverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverse)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/47 "2013-11-04T17:44:04Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > As to HOW they knew the walkers in the lab were infected? I have no frickin’ clue. Deleted scene, maybe? Their eyes were bleeding. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/48 "2013-11-04T17:52:13Z")
Rick: Some mornings I wake up half-expecting Lori to be there. Why’s that, Rick? Is the room on fire? ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/49 "2013-11-04T17:57:31Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > As to why they couldn’t go back the way they came, they made some comments in the lab about “Those dead are infected like the sick people back at the prison, you get some blood on you or breathe it in, you’ll be infected too.” > > Then someone else said, “How do we know THOSE aren’t infected too?” (referring to the walkers in the stairwell) I think it was Michonne who replied, “We don’t.” > > So basically, they knew the walkers in the lab were infected with the super-flu, but they weren’t sure about the walkers in the stairwell, so they went that way. > > As to HOW they knew the walkers in the lab were infected? I have no frickin’ clue. Deleted scene, maybe? The point is, if they didn’t have to pass them on the way in, then they didn’t have to pass them on the way out. They got chased by those walkers when leaving the building and they passed a room the walkers were in. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/50 "2013-11-04T18:04:31Z")
There was no leaving it up to the council, it was either banish her or let Tyrese pound her into pulp. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/51 "2013-11-04T18:12:46Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > There was no leaving it up to the council, it was either banish her or let Tyrese pound her into pulp. Rick doesn’t know that’s going to happen. I mean, let’s at least be consistent with “you don’t know that’s going to happen” standard. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/52 "2013-11-04T19:51:49Z")
Rick _is_ dealing with reality. There’re more questions to be asked rather than if killing the two infected people was appropriate. Realities about what is necessary for the prolonged survival of a group. It’s not feasible to maintain a group like that where an individual can privately take it upon themselves to CHOOSE to take the life of another member of the group. That just doesn’t work. While it’s possible that Carol made the right choice [whole separate discussion imho] it was not her choice to make. Her doing that threatens the structural integrity of the group and jeopardizes the long-term prospects of the group’s survival. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/53 "2013-11-04T20:00:34Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > There was no leaving it up to the council, it was either banish her or let Tyrese pound her into pulp. Then why bother having a council, if its powerless and/or its decisions will be ignored? > [@PatriotX](#): > > Rick is dealing with reality. > There’re more questions to be asked rather than if killing the two infected people was appropriate. > Realities about what is necessary for the prolonged survival of a group. It’s not feasible to maintain a group like that where an individual can privately take it upon themselves to CHOOSE to take the life of another member of the group. That just doesn’t work. > While it’s possible that Carol made the right choice [whole separate discussion imho] it was not her choice to make. Her doing that threatens the structural integrity of the group and jeopardizes the long-term prospects of the group’s survival. Rick did what you’re criticizing Carol for doing: took it upon himself to banish another member of the group. It wasn’t his choice to make any more than killing those people was her choice to make. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/54 "2013-11-04T22:52:06Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > …They were sick, though, and she knew that the sickness they had was a killer. She could have waited for them to die and turn, or put them out of their misery (which I think is what she said she did - gave them a quick, merciful death)… Hell she could’ve just lied and told everyone they died on their own and all she did was put their walkers down. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > I suspect we’ll see him in the final episode this season. I’m thinking it’ll be episode 4.08; then the major struggle for the 2nd half of the season will be with him. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > …Rick did what you’re criticizing Carol for doing: took it upon himself to banish another member of the group. It wasn’t his choice to make any more than killing those people was her choice to make. Good point. Rick is just as guilty as Carol if not more so (he’s just a farmer, at least Carol actually is on the Council). I also think Rick take’s it for granted he can just pull a Cincinnatus and be welcomed back into the leadership. But what if that’s not the case? How will Rick adapt to being the one following orders instead of giving them? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/55 "2013-11-05T00:07:04Z")
> [@Reverse](#): > > Fuck Rick. Yeah! > [@shiftless](#): > > Yep. This sums it up for me. I’m so tired of the whole story being driven by the terrible, stupid choices that Rick makes. In every episode the writers manage to find the single most nonsensical path to follow and that is where Rick goes. He isn’t the only one who makes stupid choices, just the best at it. Otherwise, the only thing he brings to the show is that brooding glare and the gravelly whisper that lost their charm by season two. > > Rick isn’t ‘everyman’, forced into difficult decisions, he is Gilligan, the guy who keeps screwing things up so nobody can get off the island. Hah - good point. He was a freaking cop, for God’s sake - he should know better than most of the survivors about hard realities. > [@theR](#): > > \ > Overall the show has done a poor job exploring Rick’s humanity by making him look just plain stupid and weak most of the time, but I thought they did a little better in this specific episode. I can see that argument. I don’t agree with it, but I can see it. 🙂 > [@PatriotX](#): > > \ > While it’s possible that Carol made the right choice [whole separate discussion imho] it was not her choice to make. Her doing that threatens the structural integrity of the group and jeopardizes the long-term prospects of the group’s survival. Hmm, I hadn’t thought of that. I agree that killing sick people before they kill other people is the right thing to do, but it should have been a group decision, and there were better ways to accomplish it. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > \ I also think Rick take’s it for granted he can just pull a Cincinnatus and be welcomed back into the leadership. But what if that’s not the case? How will Rick adapt to being the one following orders instead of giving them? I think you’re right, that Rick still thinks of himself as the leader (or that he _should_ be the leader) - I don’t think the rest of the group will accept Rick banishing Carol very easily. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/56 "2013-11-05T00:43:19Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > There was no leaving it up to the council, it was either banish her or let Tyrese pound her into pulp. I think she could take him. Still exile was about all Rick could do to prevent the shitstorm between the two regardless of which would come out ahead. ---
**Author:** ![coolbyrne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bc79bd/32.png) [@coolbyrne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coolbyrne)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/57 "2013-11-05T02:18:27Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > There was no leaving it up to the council, it was either banish her or let Tyrese pound her into pulp. Or not tell Tyresse. How about giving an original group member a second thought over a guy who’s 1. clearly not all that stable and 2. is way down the list in terms of what he brings to the group. I mean, let’s be honest, it’s not like Rick hasn’t killed someone then not been honest about it. Shane was “a threat”? To who, Rick? Maybe to Rick himself, but at least what Carol did was for the good of the group. And at least Carol was up front about what she did. I’d also like to know how Rick’s solitary decision to ostracize Carol is different than Carol independently deciding to kill two infected people? (Emphasis on “infected”. They had already seen what the sickness would inevitably lead to. So she didn’t just kill two innocent people.) How is it different from Carl killing the kid in the bush? (I actually thought Carl did the right thing, but Rick clearly didn’t think so.) I really wish Rick would make up his mind on which morals he’s going to live by, and stick with them. ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/58 "2013-11-05T03:27:01Z")
If Carol would have kept her mouth shut things would be totally different for her. She assumed that coming clean would make Rick understand that she has grown. Her admitting she killed those people was all he really needed to hear. She might be able to live on her own, or maybe she isn’t as tough as she thinks she is. Either way its a shitty situation… should have grabbed that toilet paper. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/59 "2013-11-05T03:47:43Z")
Would someone explain to me about catching flu from zombies? I missed that, I thought they were just running from your basic zombies. I would trade Caroll from Tyree, but keeping someone around who whacks folks because the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few might be a bad idea, especially if one becomes ill. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018/60 "2013-11-05T04:08:08Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Would someone explain to me about catching flu from zombies? I missed that, I thought they were just running from your basic zombies. > > I would trade Caroll from Tyree, but keeping someone around who whacks folks because the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few might be a bad idea, especially if one becomes ill. 🙂 Keep Carol and figure out how to get rid of Tyree. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-walking-dead-4-04-indifference-open-spoilers/673018.md?page=4)